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bardtoob
02-25-2012, 06:17 AM
To me, this is the most debatable poll. Stiff competition.

Ares
02-25-2012, 06:36 AM
I voted for Maria Butyrskaya. She holds a couple records for being old and Russian (1st Russian woman to win World title, oldest woman to win Euros and Worlds) but mostly I just voted for her because she was always a rockstar and most enjoyable of this list for me to watch. :glamor:

reflect
02-25-2012, 08:06 AM
In terms of Surya Bonaly and Carolina Kostner not being included, the maximum number of options in a poll is 12. This poll includes 11 skaters plus an 'other' option. The key thing for me as to why Bonaly and Kostner were not included in the poll ahead of the 11 that were, was that Bonaly never succeeded in becoming a world or Olympic champion, and Kostner has not yet become a world or Olympic champion. She may yet still do so. In terms of the records of the 11 that are on the list:-


whole post:cheer2:

The definition of "greatest" is different of "my favourate". "favourate" can be subjective as well as artistry, and we can just count the uber's number for each skater in this forum.

But "Great" or "Greatest", there should be some standard such as titles, record, technique creation, influence to the sports, etc. JMHO.

museksk8r
02-25-2012, 03:30 PM
Witt, Butyrskaya, and Kostner! :encore:

I appreciated Slutskaya's athleticism. :)

judgejudy27
02-28-2012, 04:12 PM
Haha at Biellmann being below Baiul and Butyrskaya in this poll. That has to be some joke. In her 30s she could still skate circles around both of them. Maria was probably one of the flukiest 1 time winners ever, a hugely inconsistent skater who managed to peak and have her only good LP ever in a super weak transition year with nobody there except Kwan. She did have a chance to repeat her win in a strong field the following year, but of course there was almost no chance of her doing a good LP two years in a row so not really.


I might have even included Bonaly on the poll over Butyrskaya. She does have more European titles, and 3 top 2 World medals to 1 for Maria. She was also a gold contender much more often in her career than Maria was.

PashaFan
02-28-2012, 04:52 PM
Haha at Biellmann being below Baiul and Butyrskaya in this poll. That has to be some joke. In her 30s she could still skate circles around both of them. Maria was probably one of the flukiest 1 time winners ever, a hugely inconsistent skater who managed to peak and have her only good LP ever in a super weak transition year with nobody there except Kwan. She did have a chance to repeat her win in a strong field the following year, but of course there was almost no chance of her doing a good LP two years in a row so not really.


I might have even included Bonaly on the poll over Butyrskaya. She does have more European titles, and 3 top 2 World medals to 1 for Maria. She was also a gold contender much more often in her career than Maria was.

WOW!
Do you show up at childrens birthday parties just to burst their balloons?!
Why do you have to trash something that someone else has worked hard for?.
Maria was not the most talented skater in the World but she EARNED her World title. She had no control over how anyone skated OR who was there.
Kwan won the World title the year before when everyone else skated poorly but she still deserved it.
Maria was a fighter. I respect that.
To call her win in 99' a fluke just shows how little YOU respect others.
That's sad.

judgejudy27
02-28-2012, 05:35 PM
She deserved her World title and I am happy for her, but she is still not in the league as these others on the list.

If we arent going to subjectively evaluate skaters victories vs one another, and their sheer abilities, what is the point of even having these threads in the first place. Yes she is a World Champion and always will be, but she did win in a transition year with almost no top skaters there. She was never even really one of the top skaters of any era other than the short transition period between generations, she was clearly behind Kwan, Chen, Slutskaya, Lipinski, Bonaly, and Baiul at first, then was clearly behind all of Kwan, Slutskaya, Hughes, in the second. She has only one top 2 finish at Worlds and Olympics. She wasnt hardly ever a real threat for the top of the podium. Compared to the others on this list she is just not at the same level. Even some who werent included like Bonaly are better. For her to have more votes than Biellmann and even Baiul is funny for me. Also what stood out about her skating as great. Not jumps, not spins, not footwork, definitely not spirals, not basic skating, her artistry was too awkward and stiff to be called great, maybe on ice maturity.

PS- yes Kwans 98 World title is by far her least impressive but nobody really cares when she has 4 other spectacular ones, and when she has a good chance to win any year anyway.

PashaFan
02-28-2012, 06:50 PM
She deserved her World title and I am happy for her, but she is still not in the league as these others on the list.

If we arent going to subjectively evaluate skaters victories vs one another, and their sheer abilities, what is the point of even having these threads in the first place. Yes she is a World Champion and always will be, but she did win in a transition year with almost no top skaters there. She was never even really one of the top skaters of any era other than the short transition period between generations, she was clearly behind Kwan, Chen, Slutskaya, Lipinski, Bonaly, and Baiul at first, then was clearly behind all of Kwan, Slutskaya, Hughes, in the second. She has only one top 2 finish at Worlds and Olympics. She wasnt hardly ever a real threat for the top of the podium. Compared to the others on this list she is just not at the same level. Even some who werent included like Bonaly are better. For her to have more votes than Biellmann and even Baiul is funny for me. Also what stood out about her skating as great. Not jumps, not spins, not footwork, definitely not spirals, not basic skating, her artistry was too awkward and stiff to be called great, maybe on ice maturity.

PS- yes Kwans 98 World title is by far her least impressive but nobody really cares when she has 4 other spectacular ones, and when she has a good chance to win any year anyway.

I agree about the others you have listed as above her apart from Hughes.
Hughes IMO cheated a lot of her jumps & never touched what Maria could do in artistic terms.
Bonaly was a much better jumper than many including Maria but never on the artistic mark.
For me purely on the second mark, Maria was a beautiful skater. I never found her awkward like Slutskaya. But each to their own.

judgejudy27
02-28-2012, 09:03 PM
If she were smoother and emoted more she wuold have been a great artist. She had pretty lines and positions, and had a style and maturity. She also sensed and interpreted music well, and her choreography was usually strong. However she also had a stiff and slightly awkward quality, and she had a coldness to her presentation as Peggy Fleming said.

The thing about Surya is she atleast had something that set her apart, for 3 years she was doing and consistency landing much tougher jumps than anyone else. Maria never had something that set her apart from all other top women.

As for Hughes what set her apart was her consistency, for 2 years she was the most consistent skater on the planet, including Kwan or Slutskaya. When up against Marias massive inconsistency, with Maria losing substantial ground and ceasing to any longer be a threat to Kwan and Slutskaya, and that Hughes was trying tougher jumps and combinations than Maria, and with Hughes also having superior spins and spirals, this allowed Hughes to pass Maria by even if Maria had better jumps (when landed) and better artistry. I prefer Marias skating but there is no question Hughes was a much bigger force and contender at the money end of the quad (00-01 and 01-02 seasons) than Maria was. Maria winning the bronze in SLC would have seemed as big an upset as Hughes winning the gold was.

BmcC102
02-29-2012, 04:19 AM
Although Henie and Kat are probably the best, my favorite is Carolina Kostner! Gotta love her programs.

PashaFan
02-29-2012, 10:58 AM
If she were smoother and emoted more she wuold have been a great artist. She had pretty lines and positions, and had a style and maturity. She also sensed and interpreted music well, and her choreography was usually strong. However she also had a stiff and slightly awkward quality, and she had a coldness to her presentation as Peggy Fleming said.

The thing about Surya is she atleast had something that set her apart, for 3 years she was doing and consistency landing much tougher jumps than anyone else. Maria never had something that set her apart from all other top women.

As for Hughes what set her apart was her consistency, for 2 years she was the most consistent skater on the planet, including Kwan or Slutskaya. When up against Marias massive inconsistency, with Maria losing substantial ground and ceasing to any longer be a threat to Kwan and Slutskaya, and that Hughes was trying tougher jumps and combinations than Maria, and with Hughes also having superior spins and spirals, this allowed Hughes to pass Maria by even if Maria had better jumps (when landed) and better artistry. I prefer Marias skating but there is no question Hughes was a much bigger force and contender at the money end of the quad (00-01 and 01-02 seasons) than Maria was. Maria winning the bronze in SLC would have seemed as big an upset as Hughes winning the gold was.

In SLC I would have had Maria ahead of Sarah in the short, but then I would have had quite a few skaters ahead of Sarah in the short.
Sarah's programes IMO were not special in terms of choreography, Maria's IMO was. If you seperate the technical & the artistic you would have two completely different competitions.
Kwan would have had won an artistic Gold in Nagano. Rochette an artistic Gold in Vancouver.
I find Maria more interesting to watch than Sarah & even though both have now gone from competitive skating when I still look back at their skating I still feel the same.
In the early 90's I found Tonya Harding a great technical skater-but inconsistent & Nancy Kerrigan a great artistic skater. All in all I would prefer to watch Nancy.
The same for Midori Ito Vs Kristi Yamaguchi or Michelle Kwan Vs Tara Lipinski.
It depends on what makes you watch figure skating.
What Floats Your Boat;)

Marco
03-01-2012, 02:33 PM
Kostner. She has it all.

As accomplished as Witt was, I wish someone would point out that she really isn't that good a skater. Competitor, yes. Performer, yes. Star, yes. Skater, not really.

Slutskaya had strong elements and skills, but somehow the total was always less than the sum of its parts.

PashaFan
03-01-2012, 04:10 PM
Kostner. She has it all.

As accomplished as Witt was, I wish someone would point out that she really isn't that good a skater. Competitor, yes. Performer, yes. Star, yes. Skater, not really.

Slutskaya had strong elements and skills, but somehow the total was always less than the sum of its parts.

Witt as a pro skater cleaned up her lines & looked much better than in the 80's.
I was quite shocked (Having only watched Witt since the 90's as a pro) when I watched her on Youtube, how bad her leg positions were in spins & spirals.
Debbie Thomas was much better than her in that respect.
But in the 80's IMO she was much better & consistent than everyone else.
And being a beautiful as she was also helped her.