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spikydurian
03-06-2012, 09:46 AM
It does not matter to me WHO the skater is. I am firmly of the opinion that once you fall, you should no longer be able to win.
People keep squealing about "it's figure SKATING, not figure JUMPING!" Well to that I would like to add, "It's figure SKATING, not figure FALLING" and it's well past time the ISU did something about it.

Indeed I agree with ProfDeb. The logic that you fall you cannot win is simplistic thinking. Yes, it's figure skating but figure skating does not mean you cannot fall. How boring it will be if everyone plays safe and do the same stuff not able to stretch their talents just because if you fall, you cannot win. WE might as well take figure skating out of the sports world into the performance world.

A judge
03-06-2012, 01:38 PM
The first place I go when I see people talking about Chan falling and winning is the protocols, and then Youtube to watch the program. It leaves me unimpressed. Especially when, upon reading the protocols, I find that some judges have given him only -2 and -1 for a proper, butt-landing fall. And one point deduction? Woot. What is one point amongst 90 for a short, or more for a long? It's absolutely nothing.

It does not matter to me WHO the skater is. I am firmly of the opinion that once you fall, you should no longer be able to win. (If it will persuade you, I am also of the opinion that Plushenko was held up considerably after the SP at Salt Lake City. He certainly should have been below Abt.)

People keep squealing about "it's figure SKATING, not figure JUMPING!" Well to that I would like to add, "It's figure SKATING, not figure FALLING" and it's well past time the ISU did something about it.



Excellent, thankyou! I didn't know that :)

Some of the statements you make are ridiculous. I have never seen any judge give a -1 for a Chan fall. If anyone did it would not count.

So what happens if all 20 skaters in an event falls?

You really need to see Chan live and watch his incredible flow and speed.

Iceman
03-07-2012, 01:23 AM
So why was it decided that the back operation was not needed? Did the injury just heal on its own?

kwanfan1818
03-07-2012, 07:00 AM
It does not matter to me WHO the skater is. I am firmly of the opinion that once you fall, you should no longer be able to win. (If it will persuade you, I am also of the opinion that Plushenko was held up considerably after the SP at Salt Lake City. He certainly should have been below Abt.)
I guess that means Plushenko had better give his 2004 world title back. I'm sure Joubert will be happy with that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShH2dvsEuMk#t=4m35s

spikydurian
03-07-2012, 09:51 AM
So why was it decided that the back operation was not needed? Did the injury just heal on its own?
Only Plushy's doctors can confirm the reason. My guess is that it is too risky an operation?

senorita
03-07-2012, 12:43 PM
So why was it decided that the back operation was not needed? Did the injury just heal on its own?

There wasnt much info before or after the hospital from his team, whether he would need an operation for the back injury, after the knee one it was just reported that after german and russia doctor advice for the back will be used convetional treatment.

jettasian
03-07-2012, 07:18 PM
The first place I go when I see people talking about Chan falling and winning is the protocols, and then Youtube to watch the program. It leaves me unimpressed. Especially when, upon reading the protocols, I find that some judges have given him only -2 and -1 for a proper, butt-landing fall. And one point deduction? Woot. What is one point amongst 90 for a short, or more for a long? It's absolutely nothing.

It does not matter to me WHO the skater is. I am firmly of the opinion that once you fall, you should no longer be able to win. (If it will persuade you, I am also of the opinion that Plushenko was held up considerably after the SP at Salt Lake City. He certainly should have been below Abt.)

People keep squealing about "it's figure SKATING, not figure JUMPING!" Well to that I would like to add, "It's figure SKATING, not figure FALLING" and it's well past time the ISU did something about it.



Excellent, thankyou! I didn't know that :)

The most ridiculous thing I've read for a long time.

Proustable
03-08-2012, 02:40 AM
Some of the statements you make are ridiculous. I have never seen any judge give a -1 for a Chan fall. If anyone did it would not count.


2011 GPF, SP: 4+3, fall on the triple toe. Two judges gave -1
2010 SC, SP: Three falls, one in footwork. Four judges gave -1 (other two got straight -3)

The statement is extreme as it really does seem to be created in a vacuum.

alilou
03-08-2012, 02:56 AM
Once again: a fall on a jump is not given -3 outright. All aspects are taken into account - entrance, rotation, landing, flow out etc. If the jump is perceived as having merit worthy of plus GOE, apart from fall, the -3 comes off what would have been given. So the 2 judges who gave -1 for Chan's 4+3 would have given him +2 without the fall, and then deducted -3. Given that his 4T was probably pretty good it doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

stevlin
03-08-2012, 03:09 AM
Someone wrote if a skater falls, he/she should not win. Well if that was the case, if the skater falls knowing he/she cannot win, should they just get up then walk off the ice? Now that is rediculous. So back to reality, a skater falls, gets up and continues to skate. That is more dignafied. Can you imagine how short a skating program would be if falls and leaving the ice would be?

Vash01
03-08-2012, 03:38 AM
Someone wrote if a skater falls, he/she should not win. Well if that was the case, if the skater falls knowing he/she cannot win, should they just get up then walk off the ice? Now that is rediculous. So back to reality, a skater falls, gets up and continues to skate. That is more dignafied. Can you imagine how short a skating program would be if falls and leaving the ice would be?

No offense, but do you have access to a spell checker?

I too disagree that a fall should automatically take a skater out of winning. There are falls that disrupt the whole program and there are falls where the skater just gets up skates the rest of the routine as if nothing happened. If the rest of the program is great, there is no reason why the skater should not get high marks on the part he/she did well. If that's good enough to win, so be it.

Iceman
03-08-2012, 05:51 AM
Maybe each time a skater falls in a program there should be an increasing penalty rather than an accumulation of -1's. What is the most number of times Chan has fallen in any one program? IMO all falls disrupt the program.

victorskid
03-08-2012, 07:29 AM
Those arguing about falls should review Carolina Kostner's medal-winning FS at Worlds in Dortmund. The judges marks, under the "late great" 6.0, obviously gave her a bonus for the speed and rapidity with which she recovered from her falls.

Now - back to the subject of this thread - Plushenko's two (or one) surgeries...

Dave of the North
03-08-2012, 01:01 PM
Those arguing about falls should review Carolina Kostner's medal-winning FS at Worlds in Dortmund. The judges marks, under the "late great" 6.0, obviously gave her a bonus for the speed and rapidity with which she recovered from her falls.

Now - back to the subject of this thread - Plushenko's two (or one) surgeries...

Yes, suggestions for changing the scoring system should be a separate thread. However, people should be careful of what they wish for...people complained that Buttle got too many points for fuly rotated quad with a fall, so the system got changed.

Then Buttle won in 2008 with a perfect, albeit quadless, performance, even though his PCS was less than Joubert's. So the scoring system was changed to give quads more value, but not enough to help Joubert, who has had too many other problems in his skates for quads to make up for it.

Now Chan is winning big because he can do two quads in a program, so people think if his falls got penalized more that will help narrow the field. The problem with that is that Chan may not cooperate by continuing to fall :P. 2010 fall season wasn't stellar, but 2011 was much better, and he seems to peak later in the season anyway...

jettasian
03-08-2012, 02:59 PM
It's funny that the "fall" is pointing to Chan only. It seems like people think he's the only one that gets the benefit from the falls. EVERYONE does. And he's NOT the one making the most mistakes either.

As for Chan winning all the time, well he almost lost GP Skate Canada. He was 3rd after the SP. He was not great in the LP, NOR THE OTHER SKATERS. So he won NOT because he made mistakes. He won because OTHERS made mistakes as well, plus Chan's superior program, superior skating skill, superior jumps and other combinations.

Chan has won all comeptition because he's a league above all others.