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Sylvia
02-23-2012, 04:21 AM
I have a couple dumb questions: What do you mean by the GP cut-offs and the GP minimum? How does one qualify in the senior Bs before the GP?
Refer back to last year's ISU Grand Prix selection thread:
http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?t=79281&page=24 (starting with post #467)

Of course we will have to wait for the 2012-13 ISU Grand Prix Announcement to be published to see if any changes have been made in the GP selection process for next season.

ETA: The reduction of GP singles slots from 12 to 10 definitely had a negative impact on the number of GP opportunities for skaters just up from junior. Here's a list of JGP and/or Junior Worlds competitors from the 2010-11 season that were assigned to at least 1 Senior Grand Prix event this season:

Men - Dornbush USA (2), Rogozine CAN (2), Majorov SWE (1), Ponsart FRA (1 host pick)

Ladies - Sotnikova RUS (2), Tuktamysheva RUS (2), Gao USA (2), K. Zhang CHN (1 host pick), Silete FRA (1 host pick), Q Zhu CHN (1 host pick, was on 2009 JGP)

Pairs - Sui/Han CHN (2; have done both JGP/GP for 2 years now), Takahashi/Tran JPN (2; GP only this season), Stolbova/Klimov RUS (both JGP/1 GP), Cain/Reagan USA (1), Yu/Jin CHN (1; also did JGP), Steele/Schultz CAN (1), Jones/Gaskell CAN (1), Purich/Schultz CAN (1), Kadlecova/Bidar CZE (both JGP/1 GP this season and last)

Dance - Monko/Khavalin RUS (2 but WD from both), Pushkash/Guerreiro RUS (2), Lichtman/Copely USA (1), Alessandrini/Vaturi ITA (1; had 2 last season but WD from both), Hurtado/Diaz ESP (1), Zahorski/Miart FRA (1 host pick but WD)

2011 Junior Worlds competitors that aged out of ISU Junior but were not picked for a GP this season: Messing USA (4th), Aaron USA (5th), Bush RUS (11th) in men; Cannuscio/McManus USA (7th) in dance.

kwanfan1818
02-23-2012, 05:43 AM
Bush is competing at JW next week, and that will give him a score on the SB list.

I thought Bush had to withdraw. I'm glad to hear he's skating.

love_skate2011
02-23-2012, 06:10 AM
^

where did you hear that ? if its true hope they replace him with Kovtun.

Bush competed in B Competitions as a senior this season
but not counted as any of those for a SB ?

kwanfan1818
02-23-2012, 06:18 AM
I'm confusing Bush with someone else. Bush is fine.

This year, the Season's Best list consists only of Junior and Senior Grand Prix's, including Finals, Championships, and Youth Olympic Games. When a Senior B serves as an Olympic qualifier, then that score can count, as well as the Olympics in Olympic seasons

This year, a skater/team could meet the GP minimum in one of the listed fall Senior B's in the GP announcement. All Senior B's on the International Competition list put out each year by the ISU for count for earning minimum TES scores for championships, which are a much lower bar than minimum GP scores.

Nomad
02-23-2012, 06:22 AM
Nm

love_skate2011
02-24-2012, 07:44 AM
How is Miner forgettable? He's done extremely well for himself this season, exceeding everyone's expectations by medaling at a GP, Nationals, and 4CC. Dornbush is in a bit of a rough spot now but I wouldn't call him forgettable either. I'm more worried about Brown's future than Farris's at this point to be honest, as Farris has a consistent 3a and has started trying the 4t in competition, and Brown has not done 3a in competition yet and I haven't heard anything about him even training a quad. Brown I fear could be the next Rippon, who lucked out this season and made it to Worlds, but with Miner's recent success I think the USFS will start to put him ahead of Rippon starting next season, Rippon doesn't get great marks internationally anyways and Miner is on the upswing. USFS already prefers Dornbush to Rippon Ricky just gave it away when he bombed nats. Brown has all the other qualities but it doesn't matter if he can't get a consistent 3a or a quad. Farris's issues are mostly stamina in the LP/consistency, which are more easily learned than a 3a or 4t, both of which he has already mastered with good technique. The rest of Farris's skating is strong as well.

Miner yes he has been a bit consistent now but still he is still forgettable,
I made the comparison to Farris, sure he has good donut spin, beillman, balletic feminine style skating, jumps but his overall skating isn't that memorable enough, we have plenty of that from Dornbush, Rippon and even Miner. whos to say Borwn wont get his 3A. It will take time but if gets them all together, no doubt Brown has a brighter future ahead than Farris, imho

DORISPULASKI
02-24-2012, 10:54 AM
One thing Brown isn't, is forgettable.

Learning to be not forgettable is harder than learning a triple axel, if it isn't born in you. There are very, very few skaters who have learned to be memorable, IMO.

Brian Boitano comes to mind as a skater who learned to be unforgettable, having previously been forgettable except for his death drop and 3A. Right this minute I'm drawing a blank as to others. Clearly they were forgettable, because I've forgotten them :lol:

And it is possible to be athletically or artistically or personally or musically memorable. There isn't just one type of memorable.

Tonya Harding and Gracie Gold both fall in that athletically memorable bucket for me ("that's the most amazing jump I've ever seen" type memorable). It is possible to be crowd pleasingly memorable (Chris Bowman & Ryan Bradley). It is possible to be "that's just so cool" memorable (Jason Brown and Keegan Messing, in different ways, by doing movements and stuff that is different and pleasingly memorable). It's possible to become so much a part of the music that when the music plays, I see a skater skating to it-usually ice dancers ;) )


YMMV, but I find Ricky Dornbush, Max Aaron, & Joshua Farris (well except when he was skating on a broken bone, and that's a terrible way to be memorable) all forgettable so far.

Jammers
02-24-2012, 03:16 PM
Miner reminds me a bit of a male Rachael Flatt. Consistent but forgettable and will probably never make a World Podium.

Sylvia
02-24-2012, 03:17 PM
Way to rile up pinky166 some more, guys! :lol: Isn't "forgettable" in the eye of the beholder, like beauty? ;)

ETA:

Learning to be not forgettable is harder than learning a triple axel, if it isn't born in you. There are very, very few skaters who have learned to be memorable, IMO.
Interesting post, Doris! Worth starting a new thread to discuss further?

pinky166
02-24-2012, 04:26 PM
Miner yes he has been a bit consistent now but still he is still forgettable,
I made the comparison to Farris, sure he has good donut spin, beillman, balletic feminine style skating, jumps but his overall skating isn't that memorable enough, we have plenty of that from Dornbush, Rippon and even Miner. whos to say Borwn wont get his 3A. It will take time but if gets them all together, no doubt Brown has a brighter future ahead than Farris, imho

Brown definitely has something special, but idk, I personally think Farris does as well. I agree that Ross is a little boring, but he's still managing to get the job done and his consistency and the medals he's won this season will only help his internationals scores increase, regardless of if he stays boring or becomes more interesting.

I mean, Lysacek IMHO is a bit boring, and was definitely quite boring earlier on in his career, but he won OGM. I think Dornbush has his own unique style that really comes out when he is skating well, which explains why he scores so well when he delivers. He is very theatrical and gets into character well, he is struggling now but he can bounce back and when he does I expect him to do well on the international stage. Rippon has a lovely lyrical style and if he was stronger in the jumps department he could be a World beater I bet. The only thing holding him back is his jumping ability which isn't so strong. He's like Johnny Weir. Which again brings me to Brown, who yes is fab and has a great style, but for the men, not being able to jump well/consistently hurts more than being a little boring in style, so the no 3a yet really worries me. I mean, look at Euros, Plushenko has pizazz but his skating is so.robotic, and Gatchinski is just like his 17 year old clone. Joubert managed to win a World title and all those European medals with his meat and potatoes skating. So therefore...being boring isn't as big of a setback as it might seem.

Johnny Weir is a big fan of Farris, and he usually doesn't like the boring skaters so much. All the commentators at nationals talked about how talented he is, and he really is, both in terms of jumping, spinning, and emoting. He's maybe a little bland now but he just turned 17 and if you look at his artistic progression since leaving Tom Z. just last year, it's really impressive. Plus I admire his resilience. That kid is made of tough stuff. Idk. I like his style and think he could go far. He reminds me a bit of a young Savoie. I really hope he can medal at JW next week.

toddlj
02-24-2012, 05:54 PM
...balletic feminine style skating...

Wow I hate comments like this one. Must everything be in some gender box like only females can do one kind of thing and only males can do another? Annoying.

Cheylana
02-24-2012, 06:18 PM
Learning to be not forgettable is harder than learning a triple axel, if it isn't born in you. There are very, very few skaters who have learned to be memorable, IMO.
Totally agree.


Brian Boitano comes to mind as a skater who learned to be unforgettable, having previously been forgettable except for his death drop and 3A. Right this minute I'm drawing a blank as to others. Clearly they were forgettable, because I've forgotten them :lol:
I would say Angela Nikodinov; she always had the potential to be memorable but she still needed the right coach to make it happen.

pinky166
02-24-2012, 07:13 PM
Wow I hate comments like this one. Must everything be in some gender box like only females can do one kind of thing and only males can do another? Annoying.

Truth. I don't think skaters like Adam or Josh are feminine at all. Since when does being flexible and elegant make one "feminine"? Come on...


Also the point I was trying to make was that in figure skating, a lot of "forgettable"/boring skaters can still win big titles. For as good as Jason Brown is, if he doesn't get a 3a and soon, chances are the "forgettable" skaters like Miner, Dornbush, and Farris will be beating him in competition. I know he was able to win the JGPF, but he did so by a small margin and was only able to at all because he skated 2 clean programs while both Yan and Farris had some major boo-boos. Also the international judges don't give him nearly the PCS the US judges do, and give Farris PCS just as high soo yeah. I think if he gets a 3a soon though then the international judges might bump up his PCS significantly, but I think they are holding off until the 3a materializes in competition. I mean Max Aaron beat Jason at JW last year and he's a quintessential jumps focused Tom Zzzz skater.

winterone
02-24-2012, 07:25 PM
Tim Dolensky Are you serious. GP ??

pinky166
02-24-2012, 07:56 PM
Tim Dolensky Are you serious. GP ??

Let's see how he does at JW first. Maybe he'll be the highest ranked American man there, you never know. Like I said Aaron beat Brown at JW last year, ice is slippery. Has Dolensky ever tried 3a in competition?