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View Full Version : Should all Competitions,Basic Skills included be judged by our moderen judging system



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FSWer
02-16-2012, 01:20 AM
Ok. Responses in the 6.0 Thread encouraged me to start this one. What I want to know from you all today is...do you believe or think it is time to dump the 0.6 System entirely..and begin using it all around? Prior to already finding that the new System is more farer and easier scoring? What do you all think?

Jenna
02-16-2012, 01:22 AM
Actually, I do. 6.0 is dead. D-E-A-D and it's never going to come back. I think we would better serve out young skaters if we trained them using the IJS from the very beginning. Sure, there would be segment scores of like 4.83 winning competitions, but we have to start somewhere.

rosebrallier
02-16-2012, 03:33 AM
I agree that 6.0 is long dead. Also, I think CoP gives a lot more useful feedback to skaters.

FSWer
02-16-2012, 03:35 AM
What does cop mean?

Nomad
02-16-2012, 03:38 AM
Code of Points

VALuvsMKwan
02-16-2012, 03:39 AM
What does cop mean?

Code of Points. It is what the IJS non-6.0 judging system is based on.

ChibiChibi
02-16-2012, 05:22 AM
There are a few competitions in my area that uses simplified IJS judging for Pre-Preliminary level and up. I know most coaches and judges don't like it. Some kids get < or << or "e" on their single jumps, and I'm not sure if it helps young skaters. Yes, they should learn to rotate jumps and use correct take-off edges, but using the IJS system to judge skaters with single and easier double jumps (2s and 2t) might be too much.

Also, with the IJS, judging takes more time (= more ice time for hosting clubs), and you need judges with certain qualifications.

Judge Dred
02-16-2012, 11:24 AM
What does cop mean?

Do you even know what your talking about FSWer??

orientalplane
02-16-2012, 12:41 PM
Do you even know what your talking about FSWer??

Do you even know how to write good English, Judge Dred?

zaphyre14
02-16-2012, 01:04 PM
IJS is not practical for smaller low-level competitions. The computer system is expensive, requires more manpower and uses more ice time. IJS is not designed for low Levels (USFS has had it adapted for use down to Juvenile level, but lower levels would require a rewrite of the entire program, according to the technical accountants I've spoken with). The manual-entry system uses tons of paper and takes much longer to produce results. The vast majority of skaters (according to statistics compiled by USFS) compete at the bottom levels and in Basic Skills events. IJS does not accommodate rules for non-standard events, like Showcase and Individual compulsory moves, which are offered at non-qualifying competitions.

If all competitions are forced to use IJS then 90% of the competitions would disappear. And since most club host competitions as fund-raisers, without competitions, the clubs would fold and there would be fewer places for skaters to train and compete.

Skating is not just about the elite competitors. IJS was designed for International levels. I can understand its usefulness at qualifying competitions and at the big opens that are training grounds for national and international skaters. It is not practical or useful for all ompetitions.

Clarice
02-16-2012, 01:59 PM
I agree with zaphyre14. IJS is simply not useful for little kids doing bunny hops and swizzles. Beginning skaters need to focus on developing their basic skating skills, not worry about points and levels. I think that starting IJS at Juvenile, the lowest qualifying level in the U.S., as we do now, is just fine. Enough competitions offer IJS for that level and higher that serious competitors can easily find opportunities to compete under that system. It isn't necessary to require it for all competitions.

Skittl1321
02-16-2012, 02:39 PM
IJS wouldn't work for basic skills skaters- they would pretty much just get points for an upright spin. Half jumps don't have point values, sit spins that are no parallel to the ice don't get points, their footwork sequences are not full ice so "don't count".

The system would have to have major modification to work for the lowest levels.

Here is an example of IJS used for low level skating. Look at the protocols for the Bronze ladies- many many elements have a value of 0. Now, think of skaters doing even lower level than Bronze (pre-bronze, basic skills freestyle, basic skills)- where would those skaters get points?
http://www.deu-event.de/results/adult2010/index.html

Judge Dred
02-16-2012, 03:32 PM
Ok. Responses in the 6.0 Thread encouraged me to start this one. What I want to know from you all today is...do you believe or think it is time to dump the 0.6 System entirely..and begin using it all around? Prior to already finding that the new System is more farer and easier scoring? What do you all think?

Apologies


Actually, I do. 6.0 is dead. D-E-A-D and it's never going to come back. I think we would better serve out young skaters if we trained them using the IJS from the very beginning. Sure, there would be segment scores of like 4.83 winning competitions, but we have to start somewhere.

They should have kept it, but improved it.

Sylvia
02-16-2012, 03:40 PM
Great informative post, zaphyre14! (bolded parts mine)

IJS is not practical for smaller low-level competitions. The computer system is expensive, requires more manpower and uses more ice time. IJS is not designed for low Levels (USFS has had it adapted for use down to Juvenile level, but lower levels would require a rewrite of the entire program, according to the technical accountants I've spoken with). The manual-entry system uses tons of paper and takes much longer to produce results. The vast majority of skaters (according to statistics compiled by USFS) compete at the bottom levels and in Basic Skills events. IJS does not accommodate rules for non-standard events, like Showcase and Individual compulsory moves, which are offered at non-qualifying competitions.

If all competitions are forced to use IJS then 90% of the competitions would disappear. And since most club host competitions as fund-raisers, without competitions, the clubs would fold and there would be fewer places for skaters to train and compete.

Skating is not just about the elite competitors. IJS was designed for International levels. I can understand its usefulness at qualifying competitions and at the big opens that are training grounds for national and international skaters. It is not practical or useful for all ompetitions.


Actually, I do. 6.0 is dead. D-E-A-D and it's never going to come back. I think we would better serve out young skaters if we trained them using the IJS from the very beginning. Sure, there would be segment scores of like 4.83 winning competitions, but we have to start somewhere.
How would you go about implementing this?

sk8girl
02-16-2012, 05:39 PM
The system would have to have major modification to work for the lowest levels.


Skate Canada has a modified version of IJS which they have been using very successfully at lower levels for several years now, including for all levels of adult competition in Canada. Maybe they can give it to USFS in exchange for a couple of senior women? (Sorry, couldn't resist :lol:) They added waltz jumps to the system and developed well-balanced program requirements for each category. It works very well for any categories where skaters are doing at least waltz jumps and single jumps, including Skate Canada's lowest adult category (bronze). (A typical Skate Canada adult bronze skater would be doing a waltz jump, several different single jumps (including two combos, I think), two different spins, and a spiral or step sequence.)

As an adult skater, I love it and far prefer it over 6.0, and the lower level kids I know like it too, because it lets them understand their placement. (Usually both kids and adults competing under IJS for the first time get a big shock when they don't get credit for some of their elements, but then they read the rules and make SURE they get credit for everything at future events!! :))

However, I would agree that IJS is probably overkill for categories where skaters aren't doing waltz jumps or single jumps yet.