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luna_skater
02-19-2012, 10:47 PM
I have a problem with that, myself. Technical Controllers evaluate and assign levels to the elements. The judges judge, based on those evaluations. So, while they are not sitting in a "judges seat", they are impacting the scores.


No, the Technical Specialist assigns the levels. The Controller or the ATS can disagree and ask to review the call. If the TS and ATS don't reach consensus, the TC breaks the tie. The call is a decision of three people, not one.

bruno6
02-19-2012, 10:51 PM
I love her... Know her . Now go to grand prix events then the final
Look at the tek panel. You would be surprised ...

bruno6
02-19-2012, 10:53 PM
Yes, three decide but two can over rule one. All depends who
Sits on that panel.

cruisin
02-19-2012, 10:55 PM
No, the Technical Specialist assigns the levels. The Controller or the ATS can disagree and ask to review the call. If the TS and ATS don't reach consensus, the TC breaks the tie. The call is a decision of three people, not one.

Specialist or Controller, no one impacting results should be a coach. Unless they are no longer coaching.

bruno6
02-19-2012, 11:00 PM
Lets use Russia as an example... If the Tc is Russian
The Ats is American and Zhulin is ts. Zulin and the Russian
Tc can overrule the American in favor of let's say Zhulins rival team, that he's
Coaching but is not at that event. Just an example .

bruno6
02-19-2012, 11:01 PM
It's another disaster .. That will happen. Of course not with Zhulin
But you get the drift.

bruno6
02-19-2012, 11:04 PM
Thank you again cruisin .. Coach should Be retired or not coaching......

Triple Butz
02-20-2012, 12:23 AM
I think CoP in its current state makes perfect sense for the short program, but the free programs as a whole look dreadful. There are obvious exceptions (Abbott, Takahashi) but I really think they should score the free skate differently. Do away with levels and give ONE score for Jumps, Spins, Footwork, and MITF each.

I hate that in women's skating we see most of the difficult jump elements in the sp and then see them back off or just do a 2a/3t combo in the free skate...seems anticlimactic to finish the competition with less than what they are capable of. I liked it better when the sp was like walking on egg shells to be squeaky clean so you could place well and then go for broke in the free. Now, it's the opposite. Go for broke in the short to score big and just try to stand up in the free to keep your place.

AndyWarhol
02-20-2012, 12:45 AM
I think CoP in its current state makes perfect sense for the short program, but the free programs as a whole look dreadful. There are obvious exceptions (Abbott, Takahashi) but I really think they should score the free skate differently. Do away with levels and give ONE score for Jumps, Spins, Footwork, and MITF each.

I hate that in women's skating we see most of the difficult jump elements in the sp and then see them back off or just do a 2a/3t combo in the free skate...seems anticlimactic to finish the competition with less than what they are capable of. I liked it better when the sp was like walking on egg shells to be squeaky clean so you could place well and then go for broke in the free. Now, it's the opposite. Go for broke in the short to score big and just try to stand up in the free to keep your place.

totally

Nomad
02-20-2012, 12:52 AM
I think that CoP programs are what choreographers, coaches, and skaters make of them. Some of them are brilliant, some are okay, some suck. Was it really that much different under 6.0? Did programs that were technically messy never get held up by the artistic impression mark/ordinals because the judges were high on Tammy Twizzle that year, since she had a great rep going into the comp and won all the practices despite a subpar performance on the day? Did skaters under 6.0 never get held down on that second mark because they were newbies and it wasn't their turn yet? Seems to me that it's not the system, it's just that old judging habits are hard to break.

kwanfan1818
02-20-2012, 01:02 AM
^This.

bruno6
02-20-2012, 01:11 AM
Here is another Wtf... From this sport. How about judges being invited
By coaches to help them with their teams, when they are making new programs.
I have heard judges from federations who are not a judge from the skaters country..
Being flow to ice arenas to evaluated programs because they are friends with the coach.
Helping them with program levels?? Shouldn't that be a illegal . But it happens alot.

luna_skater
02-20-2012, 01:19 AM
Here is another Wtf... From this sport. How about judges being invited
By coaches to help them with their teams, when they are making new programs.
I have heard judges from federations who are not a judge from the skaters country..
Being flow to ice arenas to evaluated programs because they are friends with the coach.
Helping them with program levels?? Shouldn't that be a illegal . But it happens alot.

You have to define what you mean by "helping" here.

It's completely normal and acceptable for judges and technical panelists to go to a skater's practice to give them feedback on their programs. They're allowed to do so within a given time frame of an event they'll be officiating at (eg., if a judge is judging at Worlds in two weeks, they can't give feedback to a skater who will be competing there). It's NOT acceptable for a judge or tech panelist to help someone choreograph a program, that they will they evaluate in competition. But helping with choreography and giving feedback about a program are two entirely different things.

cruisin
02-20-2012, 01:27 AM
^^ The problem is when mentoring crosses a line, and the judge goes beyond the acceptable amount of helping, due to an agenda.


I think that CoP programs are what choreographers, coaches, and skaters make of them. Some of them are brilliant, some are okay, some suck. Was it really that much different under 6.0? Did programs that were technically messy never get held up by the artistic impression mark/ordinals because the judges were high on Tammy Twizzle that year, since she had a great rep going into the comp and won all the practices despite a subpar performance on the day? Did skaters under 6.0 never get held down on that second mark because they were newbies and it wasn't their turn yet? Seems to me that it's not the system, it's just that old judging habits are hard to break.

I agree. It is not the system. This stuff went on with 6.0. The difference is that now it's anonymous and there are no individual marks. Nothing was fixed, it was just changed.

bruno6
02-20-2012, 01:28 AM
Bingo... Well then you answered my question . So a judge can't
Go to a skating rink in the summer after a program is complete and give tips
About levels... Especally if they have no affiliation with the skaters country. And are only a friend of the coach.