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cruisin
02-19-2012, 04:09 PM
Wrong judges are payed. But it's a minimal amount
Plus thier travel.

They are not paid. Their expenses are taken care of. Even the stipend (when given) is for expenses. But, again, they are not officially paid to judge.

It has been proposed that judges be paid. It is felt that, if they are paid, they have something to lose, if they judge in a biassed manner. The problem is, that unless it is blatant (like SLC), it is just an opinion. Very hard to prove actual corruption. So, would paying them really change anything? Probably not. Until we find some way of having computers evaluate the skaters, there will be a human, biassed element. Even if the bias is taste, it can be unfair. Of course, whoever programs the computer can set it up with prejudice. Can't win :lol:!

johndockley92
02-19-2012, 05:06 PM
All I have to say is look at the tek panel
Of the grand prix events.. Then look at grand
Prix final panel!!! Coaches can not be Judges!!! You will see more coaches with skin in the
Game trying to corrupt the tek levels!! Also who decides.... Alla Russia's biggest bias judge is head of that
Committee . She chooses what tek judges go where. And then Peter Kriek has to
Approve it. He is probably the only one who is on the up and up.
Knows the corrupt players and tries to devide . When he Knows!!!

Until you can learn to spell and use proper grammar.... I just can't take you seriously. lol

winterchik
02-19-2012, 05:11 PM
All I have to say is look at the tek panel
Of the grand prix events.. Then look at grand
Prix final panel!!! Coaches can not be Judges!!! You will see more coaches with skin in the
Game trying to corrupt the tek levels!! Also who decides.... Alla Russia's biggest bias judge is head of that
Committee . She chooses what tek judges go where. And then Peter Kriek has to
Approve it. He is probably the only one who is on the up and up.
Knows the corrupt players and tries to devide . When he Knows!!!

who is the head of the technical committee???
she chooses the technical panel ...again who chooses???

bardtoob
02-19-2012, 07:21 PM
I like:

- Protocols with ratified elements
- Assigned values
- GOE points

I don't like:

- Spin levels
- Steps Sequence definitions

I would:

- Use 6.0 as the factor range for GOEs instead of 3 because it is iconic
- Use 6.0 as the range for PCS instead of 10 because it is iconic
- I would make the shape of step sequences more strict with the practical, but not necessary formal, restriction of only serpentine step sequences being eligibility for level 4. (Most level 4 "straight line" step sequence waves resemble serpentines anyway.)

bruno6
02-19-2012, 07:45 PM
Johndockley what I can't take seriously about you,
Is that you
actually believe that there is no bias in the tek
Panel!! Also my fat fingers sometime enables me to type properly
On my small iPhone. I should really get a computer.
2. Isu pays their judges about 300.00 per event.
3. Alla, I won't even attempt to spell her last name, is now head of the
Isu tek committee . So she decides who goes where.

bruno6
02-19-2012, 07:54 PM
Someone help me out here. Her husband was head of the
Russian Federation .... Alla S????

Sylvia
02-19-2012, 08:04 PM
3. Alla, I won't even attempt to spell her last name, is now head of the Isu tek committee . So she decides who goes where.
Alla Shekhovtsova - she's listed below as a member, not the chair, of the ISU's ice dance technical committee.

ISU Technical Committees

Single & Pair Skating
Chairperson: Alexander Lakernik Russia
Members:
Fabio Bianchetti Italy
Rita Zonnekeyn Belgium
Susan Lynch Australia
Appointed Skater: Patrick Meier Switzerland
Appointed Coach: David P. Kirby U.S.A.

Ice Dance
Chairperson: Halina Gordon-Poltorak Poland
Members:
Robert Horen U.S.A.
Gilles Vandenbroeck France
Alla Shekhovtsova Russia
Appointed Skater: Sylwia Nowak-Trebacka Poland
Appointed Coach: John Dunn Great Britain

bruno6
02-19-2012, 08:23 PM
Yes cruisin you are correct. Thank you

Aussie Willy
02-19-2012, 09:48 PM
Wrong judges are payed. But it's a minimal amount
Plus thier travel.
Let me put you straight about judges getting paid where I am. I might not be an international judge, but as a National level judge, here is what some events have cost me over the last couple of years. I am just one example of a judge and maybe other judges in other countries get a better deal. But being in Australia this is what I have paid out just to be a judge.

2011 Nationals - It cost me $1,200 to go and judge at my own Nationals last year. I had to pay for my own airfares and accommodation. I think I get a small amount for each panel I am on but overall it is not much and certainly will not cover everything (which I haven't received anything yet). Took a week off work as well which is 5 days annual leave that I could have used for my own holiday.

2010 Nationals - These were held in my own home city. It still ended up costing me about $800 for accommodation as I needed to be close to the rink (where I was living was over an hour away from the rink) as I was working 13-14 hour days on not just judging but doing computers, judging sheets, etc. For that event I got absolutely nothing except $5 a day for carparking. I used up 8 days of my own work annual leave which again I could have used for a holiday for myself. Plus suffered burn out which took me ages to recover from.

2010 - I did another interstate competition (a 4 day event) which cost me over $500. Took two days annual leave from work to attend.

I have occaisionally got some funding but it certainly has not covered all my expenses.

So in the last two years I have spent nearly $2,500 of my own money to be a volunteer for this sport. Counting the annual leave I am probably looking at nearly $5,000 I have contributed to the sport.

For our local events we get petrol and parking. I get reimbursed, not paid.

Knowing international judges, they get reimbursed for what it costs them. But at the end of the day it still costs them money to do it.

Now I love skating and love doing the judging and all the other stuff I do. And I am not looking for pity. I have done it full well knowing what I get myself in for. I have plenty of people outside the sport think I am mad and I shouldn't do it if it costing me money. But you really need to know the facts. Please do not tell people that judges get paid! And the other volunteers, not just judges, do exactly the same and it costs them a small fortune too.

bruno6
02-19-2012, 10:05 PM
Yes, you are not an international Judge . I know four who are. And they are paid
A small amount plus their travel hotel Etc. I don't know about smaller events. But the other
I have direct knowledge of.

johndockley92
02-19-2012, 10:10 PM
ISU Technical Committees

Single & Pair Skating
Chairperson: Alexander Lakernik Russia
Members:
Fabio Bianchetti Italy
Rita Zonnekeyn Belgium
Susan Lynch Australia
Appointed Skater: Patrick Meier Switzerland
Appointed Coach: David P. Kirby U.S.A.

Ice Dance
Chairperson: Halina Gordon-Poltorak Poland
Members:
Robert Horen U.S.A.
Gilles Vandenbroeck France
Alla Shekhovtsova Russia
Appointed Skater: Sylwia Nowak-Trebacka Poland
Appointed Coach: John Dunn Great Britain

I thought David Kirby resigned?

cruisin
02-19-2012, 10:19 PM
For our local events we get petrol and parking. I get reimbursed, not paid.

Knowing international judges, they get reimbursed for what it costs them. But at the end of the day it still costs them money to do it.

It is different in different places. Even for local events (which I have been involved with), we cover the judges expenses. We put them up 2 in a room and pay for the hotel, we feed them at the event, and we reimburse them for gas/travel. No stipend, they certainly do not make money doing it, but we do cover them.

bruno6, At international events they get a daily stipend for expenses (it is not much). Food outside of the venue, etc. You should also know that the athletes and coaches get a stipend (when applicable), as well.

bruno6
02-19-2012, 10:30 PM
Thank you cruisin... You are right again. It is a small amount. Federations will pay sometimes or Isu. It's the coach , judge aspect I am mad as hell about.

Sylvia
02-19-2012, 10:41 PM
I thought David Kirby resigned?
Kirby resigned as president of the Professional Skaters Association (PSA) last year: http://www.skatepsa.com/Angela%20Riviello-Steffano-P.htm

cruisin
02-19-2012, 10:42 PM
It's the coach , judge aspect I am mad as hell about.

I have a problem with that, myself. Technical Controllers evaluate and assign levels to the elements. The judges judge, based on those evaluations. So, while they are not sitting in a "judges seat", they are impacting the scores.

As an FYI Halina Gordon-Poltorak is one of the most up-standing honest judges I've ever met.