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cruisin
02-17-2012, 02:36 PM
^not buying that audience has all that power over skating. If anything, they seem to have no power. Skating isn't even shown on tv in the US anymore.

I think it's hard to convince the IOC that the ability to retrace a circle over and over again perfectly, or repeat a dance step over and over again perfect is "sport".

When you see athletes land historic 1st 3x or 1st 4t and then end up in places like 10th, it's hard to sell fs as a progressive "modern" sport.

But, in fact, that is partly why they dumped figures and compulsories. That and time allowance. And FTR, figures is not retracing circle over and over again. Advanced figure tests are HARD. They are about slow, precise edge changes and tight turns. It's like barr work in ballet. Another one of the reasons they were dumped was because some of the good jumpers didn't do well in figures and didn't win medals. If they had to dump them from competition, so be it, but why did they remove them from the test structure? Probably because it held good jumpers, who were not great skaters, back.

And why does it have to be all about historic jumps? Jumps are just one element in skating. The problem is that it is becoming all about jumps, and nothing else. It's ruining the sport.

bruno6
02-17-2012, 03:51 PM
I agree crusin , it boggles my mind instead
Of throwing out all the old corrupt judges , and I know
Most have been identified over the years to the Isu
But they just keep promoting them from judge to isu commitee , they would rather sacrifice
The sport and make the skater touch their ass and bend I to a
Pretzel just to get levels!!! Soon the will have them balancing
Plates on their heads to see who can do it the longest!!! The fans know ,they are fooling
No one . Events are empty thanks to that italian ass running the show.

bruno6
02-17-2012, 04:18 PM
And now you have these corrupt coaches with skin in the game
Calling levels at major event to judge rival skaters!!! What a sham.

berthesghost
02-17-2012, 05:04 PM
But, in fact, that is partly why they dumped figures and compulsories. That and time allowance. And FTR, figures is not retracing circle over and over again. Advanced figure tests are HARD. They are about slow, precise edge changes and tight turns. It's like barr work in ballet. Another one of the reasons they were dumped was because some of the good jumpers didn't do well in figures and didn't win medals. If they had to dump them from competition, so be it, but why did they remove them from the test structure? Probably because it held good jumpers, who were not great skaters, back.

And why does it have to be all about historic jumps? Jumps are just one element in skating. The problem is that it is becoming all about jumps, and nothing else. It's ruining the sport.
A big reason why they dumped figures is because it was too costly and the non rich countries were breaking and would probably end up out of the sport if figures weren't dumped. And it was never black and white... Often the leader after figures plummeted out of sight once the fs started. Then as now, the medals usually went to the most "complete package" skaters.

Fs relies on participation in the olys as its biggest marketing tool and source of income and talent. Almost all other oly sports are about bigger faster stronger. Most of them rely on record breaking to survive. So all of this focus on "historic jumps" is from the perspective of keeping the io csweet and thinking fs is a sport like the others. Why else was 6.0 dumped for this new onsessionwithsb scores etc... I don't meant he entire njs, but they could have done cop with a cap. Instead they promote higher and higher scores and record breaking in part to impress the IOC IMO.

peibeck
02-17-2012, 07:10 PM
Another reason figures died was because the judging was frequently unfair and skaters were held up and pushed down a lot easier. Corruption in judging started with figures, free skates where everyone could easily watch and make more comparative results were less easy to manipulate. Just about every book I've read about skating (skater biography or talking about the history of the sport) has discussed these problems. The short program, in fact, was introduced, in part to help reduce the corruption involved with figures. The percent of the value of figures into the final "score" dropped to 40% when the SP was introduced, and I believed the value of figures was lowered several times (to, I think, 20%?) before figures were eventually removed altogether.

winterone
02-17-2012, 10:48 PM
Just wondering are any of those judges still around? I would hope not. Hoping they were banished to detriot or siberia.

2002 Judging Scandal:... 02-17-2012 08:10 PM sk8er1964 Someone from Milwaukee slamming Detroit. How ironic. :D

To Sk8ter1964. That's right Milwaukee is safer and better than detwa! No one from the Detroit Skating club lives in Detroit. The Detroit skating club is in BLOOMFIELD HILLS. Hardly Detroit. ;)

sliver98
02-18-2012, 04:04 AM
technical panels now decide outcome of ice dance competitions for sure, it is the most subjective of all the disciplines and its sometimes very hard to understand why a level was downgraded.

winterchik
02-18-2012, 05:06 AM
Not always. TS's can train to become TC's, and vice versa.
My understand to be TS you had to be a former skate of a good standard( depending on countries)
TC most comes from the judging ranks,

IF the system is corrupted first one needs to look from the top down who is running the show and who is responsible to keep the bastards honest..

winterchik
02-18-2012, 05:08 AM
technical panels now decide outcome of ice dance competitions for sure, it is the most subjective of all the disciplines and its sometimes very hard to understand why a level was downgraded.

who makes the decision who goes where...that is the question and problem

luna_skater
02-18-2012, 05:19 AM
My understand to be TS you had to be a former skate of a good standard( depending on countries)
TC most comes from the judging ranks,


That's generally how the training begins, yes. I should specify that in *Canada* once you are trained as a TS or TC, you can train for the other position. I would need to double-check whether you can do that at the ISU level.

kwanfan1818
02-18-2012, 06:06 AM
The skaters feel as bad about the judging as does the audience. Who benefits from this system?
Perhaps you missed the part where Bourzat said, "Actually in the end we didn't ask them, because when we saw all the levels they gave everybody, we realized it was a really strict technical panel. We just had to get better and make happy even the strictest member of the panel. " (emphasis added)

Aussie Willy
02-18-2012, 08:08 AM
Okay so going by the tone of the responses to this thread no coaches or judges should be involved in the sport because they are all corrupt and incompetent. So who is left to judge it?

Zemgirl
02-18-2012, 09:35 AM
Okay so going by the tone of the responses to this thread no coaches or judges should be involved in the sport because they are all corrupt and incompetent. So who is left to judge it?
Michelle Kwan?

Actually, no, her sister and brother in law coach, so clearly she too has an agenda.

demetriosj
02-18-2012, 02:26 PM
Okay so going by the tone of the responses to this thread no coaches or judges should be involved in the sport because they are all corrupt and incompetent. So who is left to judge it?

Typical snarky response to legitimate questions and concerns about the judging/judges/coaches involved in this sport and how can things be cleaned up!

& we always have to be reminded too that the judges are volunteers...

cruisin
02-18-2012, 02:34 PM
Okay so going by the tone of the responses to this thread no coaches or judges should be involved in the sport because they are all corrupt and incompetent. So who is left to judge it?

No, there are honorable judges out there, just not enough. As far was coaches, they should NEVER be allowed on the panel, unless they stop coaching. That is how it used to be, why has it changed?