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A.H.Black
02-16-2012, 01:37 AM
As I understand it, the winner is supposed to be the dog that comes closest to the "standard" for that breed. I'm wondering if it is easier for the small dogs to come closer to that standard. Otherwise, I'm like many posters here - I think the big dogs get robbed far too often.

Like I posted earlier - why can't a labrador or a golden retriever ever get the nod.

rfisher
02-16-2012, 01:39 AM
That Setter had 15 puppies and got back in top shape in a little over a year! Sometimes the BIS winner is simply based on attitude. They all represent the breed standard so the difference is that indefinable something the dog has. I really thought the Dobie and the Shepherd showed the best. That Dobie's stance was perfect, but this Peke has won more BIS than any other dog this last year, so he's got something.

IceAlisa
02-16-2012, 03:46 AM
Well, whatever the Peke's got, doesn't come through on TV. I didn't notice any attitude. Le shrug. The setter wuzrobbed! :drama:

BaileyCatts
02-16-2012, 03:49 AM
I did. I thought he o-w-n-e-d that room when he did his final run. I thought the German Shepard had that same 'tude also and might have got in there for the win, but I was still rooting for the Peke. :P

:dog:

danceronice
02-16-2012, 04:22 AM
As I understand it, the winner is supposed to be the dog that comes closest to the "standard" for that breed. I'm wondering if it is easier for the small dogs to come closer to that standard. Otherwise, I'm like many posters here - I think the big dogs get robbed far too often.

Like I posted earlier - why can't a labrador or a golden retriever ever get the nod.

I suspect with BiS so much of it is things you have to put your hands on the dog to tell. I've READ the standards, but some of them are just...I think if I had a dog example in front of me they'd be more logical. When they're bad, they're BAD (I know why my Pembroke was someone's chubby pet and not a show dog) but deciding between great dogs has to come down to tiny things like teeth alignment.

IceAlisa
02-16-2012, 04:44 AM
For instance, my parents' cat is a Birman and she is pet quality. I know exactly why: her eyes aren't blue enough, that is not a deep blue and her mittens are not all the same and don't taper up in the back the way they are supposed to. Her sister though, grew up to be a champion show cat. (I TOLD my parents to get both kittens when they had the chance!)

Japanfan
02-16-2012, 07:26 AM
Well, whatever the Peke's got, doesn't come through on TV. I didn't notice any attitude. Le shrug. The setter wuzrobbed! :drama:


Like I posted earlier - why can't a labrador or a golden retriever ever get the nod.


As I understand it, the winner is supposed to be the dog that comes closest to the "standard" for that breed. I'm wondering if it is easier for the small dogs to come closer to that standard. Otherwise, I'm like many posters here - I think the big dogs get robbed far too often.


If coming closest to standard is what's needed to win, then there is really no need to show the dogs. The showing - how the handler and dogs 'perform' - doesn't really matter, it's all just for show (pun intended :)

I've been disappointed with the results of Westminster every year since Josh the Newfoundland won - though I was okay when the beagle won.

I've never seen a golden or lab even make it to the final, and this year was thrilled to see the Dobie, the Shepherd, and the Irish Setter in the final line-up. IMO the Irish Setter stole the show the way he literally pranced around the stage. Even the wiener dog shows better than the Peke.

My downstairs neighbour is a Peke person and I admit I'm not fond of the breed - it's a decorative breed as they were meant to sit on pillows for the emperor, so they are kind of dumb dogs. I find them quite unattractive as well. But of the three my neighbour had, one was pure white and the colour did make for a more attractive peke.

But the Peke who won here, I'm sorry to say, was not IMO an attractive dog at all.

IceAlisa
02-16-2012, 07:35 AM
Malachy the Fairest Peke of them all, sure looked like wouldn't mind sitting on a pillow. When he was being walked (the whole 2 yards of it) he kept looking up at the handler, as if saying "Dude, you gonna pick me up soon or what?"

I was happy when Josh the Newfie won, Uno the Beagle and that Sussex spaniel, what's his name. Here's a slideshow of past winners of Westminster: http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/past-winners-of-the-westminster-dog-show/2012/02/10/gIQAjVHe4Q_gallery.html#photo=1

Marge_Simpson
02-16-2012, 07:48 AM
I'm not a dog lover by any means, but "The Black Marble" by Joseph Wambaugh is one of my favorite books. It's sad and also hysterically funny, and is centered around a dog show.
http://www.amazon.com/Black-Marble-Joseph-Wambaugh/dp/0440613965/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1329377845&sr=1-1

rfisher
02-16-2012, 11:56 AM
Just like skating, some of the dogs get a rep bonus and they get a bonus based on the handler's rep. All those dogs except the Dobie were handled by a professional handler. The guy who won, has won BIS at Westminster before, so there are sort of bonus points for that. Even if the judge didn't know which dog had made the final cut, it's very likely she was familiar with all 7 dogs, their owners and certainly their handlers from other shows this year. The winning dog is almost always the top winning dog in the country before WKC's show. A dog has to have so many points before they even get the invitation to compete. Just being invited to compete in best of breed is a big boost for a dog's rep, to say nothing of the handler or kennel.

danceronice
02-16-2012, 03:16 PM
If coming closest to standard is what's needed to win, then there is really no need to show the dogs. The showing - how the handler and dogs 'perform' - doesn't really matter, it's all just for show (pun intended :)



Part of the breed standard is action and behavior (why they try to keep bouncing and barking to a minimum, even though it's crowd pleasing.) A handler showing off the dog's action and stance incorrectly can screw up even a nice dog's placing. That's why even though I'd love to try showing a dog in confo if I lucked into a really spectacular dog I'd turn it over to a professional handler for something like Crufts or Westminster. No reason to let my amateur handling skills screw up a dog's day.

I think the 'viewers at home' tend to be biased towards the big and common breeds. With labs, I'd think part of their problem is decades of quantity over quality-it's harder to create a perfect show lab. With Goldens, I'm biased but all the ones I've met (pet/show type, as opposed to the rather rangy, flatter-coated working dogs, which don't look like show Goldens) have had dryer lint where their brains ought to be.

And I'm sorry, but I say German Shepherds can win again when they stop breeding dogs with backs that tilt at 45 degrees to the ground.

(What do I know? I'm still holding out for a Clumber Spaniel best in show. I love Clumbers almost as much as Sussex. Trying to convince my Dad, he NEEDS a nice big upland bird dog to stroll around the farm. He likes them, but as he doesn't hunt birds, he's unconvinced of a Clumber's nescessity.)

Rob
02-16-2012, 04:54 PM
I was happy when Josh the Newfie won, Uno the Beagle and that Sussex spaniel, what's his name.

Stump. Josh was one of my favorite winners. I also liked the Deerhound last year and Rufus the bull terrier. He just had so much personality. And there was the German Shorthair pointed who showed so well -- posing perfectly in pointer stance.

IceAlisa
02-16-2012, 04:59 PM
I must have missed the pointer. He or she sounds lovely.

ETA: I checked out Carlee the pointer in this video: http://video.today.msnbc.msn.com/today/6979672/#6979672

She is beautiful. Well done!

milanessa
02-16-2012, 05:55 PM
Malachy rang the opening bell at the NY stock exchange today. :cool:

Rob
02-16-2012, 06:20 PM
I must have missed the pointer. He or she sounds lovely.

ETA: I checked out Carlee the pointer in this video: http://video.today.msnbc.msn.com/today/6979672/#6979672

She is beautiful. Well done!

This link shows her "freestack" that really wowed the crowd. She was motionless.

http://xfinity.comcast.net/slideshow/news-dogshow/8/