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rosebrallier
02-16-2012, 01:53 AM
While D&W vs V&M is amazingly competitive and beautiful to watch, I don't find them dramatic enough personally to qualify as the greatest rivalry. Weir and Lysacek were far more adept at drawing the press and making a big hullabaloo (mostly just Johnny, for all I love him; Evan got dragged into it quite nicely though).
So definitely among the best professional rivalries, but in terms of a personal rivalry, I don't see our beloved ice dancers going down in any record books.

judgejudy27
02-16-2012, 02:23 AM
I count 4 times and 3 of those times, Kwan made serious errors.

96 centennial on ice
99 worlds
2000 worlds
2002 gpf

Kwan did not make a serious error at the 2000 Worlds and 2002 GPF. A wobbly landing on one foot is not a serious error, but a minor one without even a mandatory deduction (and she was never beating Maria in the 2000 Worlds SP regardless). Also your count is wrong. Maria also beat Michelle in the SP at the 97 GPF, 97 Worlds, 94 Goodwill Games, so now adding it up that is atleast 7. It doesnt matter whether she skated perfectly each time or not, it still means Maria did a better program each time. If one discounted when there was errors that would discount almost every competition Maria ever did, and thus she would have almost never really lost a competition to anyone. :lol:

My point of course was not to suggest Maria was in anyway a serious rival to Michelle Kwan. It was to show how extremely little K/O beating G/P once ever in the shorter dance means. In fact it only emphasizes more what a non rivalry it was.

briancoogaert
02-16-2012, 10:56 AM
Wheeee !
This thread is turning into a Kwan thread ! :cheer2:

Karpenko
02-22-2012, 04:49 PM
Just because K/O never beat G/P doesn't mean that they didn't have a rivalry. IIRC both teams were good friends at one point, then towards the end when G/P left Linichuk for Tarasova K/O wanted to overtake them before Nagano and I remember on more than one occasion, Anjelika being absolutely PISSED (and I mean watch their Carmen, Anjelika Krylova being pissed is the only skater that can compete with Babs in scariness) that they had finished 2nd. They also didn't have the COP to help even out the playing field back then. They were both miles ahead of all of the other teams in 96-98 IMO (just as the top 2 are now) and the perforamnces they both gave in each competition they entered far outshined any fake over the top 10's that judges are just handing out these days. Not to discredit the top 2 ice dance teams at the moment, I just felt like performance-wise, G&P vs K&O rivalry had so much more depth and excitement.

aftershocks
02-22-2012, 06:01 PM
Of course, while V/M and D/W is a great and exciting rivalry, I wouldn't call it "the best ever." Particularly in ice dance, I believe there have been a number of great rivalries, that unfortunately weren't allowed to play out that way because of the entrenched political scoring system that tended to affect ice dancing more than the other disciplines.

A case in point (before I've read other posts in this thread) is the close competitions between Klimova/Ponomarenko and Usova/Zhulin, where K/P always came out on top regardless. U/Z actually deserved to win over K/P at some point before having to wait for them to retire!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mdij7eJeEzY

This was a great performance that should have probably won U/Z their first World championship (before they eventually won in 1993). Looking back, I see the Duchesnays won Worlds over K/P and U/Z in 1991, so D/D were also in the rivalry mix in those years. D/D were exciting to watch but did not have the polish and tech skills of K/P and U/Z.

dinakt
02-23-2012, 02:50 AM
The fun thing about V/M vs D/W rivalry is that it is happening NOW and it is likely to continue for the next couple of years.
To me, the greatest emotional rivalry is Yagudin vs Plushenko. In fact, there was so much emotion ( mine, yes, but also public's emotion in general) invested in it, that it continues to this day. Yagudin won short-term ( and my heart still sings thinking of his perfiormances at SLC), while Plushenko is winning in terms of longevity. It was so epic, it is always in the background.
The other rivalries mentioned , IMO, are comparable to D/W vs V/M rivalry, and D/W/V/M have a chance to surpass them. Scott heat it up with his comments, and who knows what the future brings? FUN to see! ( the fan wars are certainly reaching the epic level, even without NA vs Europe dilemma)

luna_skater
02-23-2012, 06:17 AM
I think I have a hard time considering V/M and D/W a "rivalry" because they're just so darn NICE to each other! No disparaging remarks in interviews, no death glares, no sex skandals. Where's the excitement?! What's happened to ice dance?! :P

~tapdancer~
02-23-2012, 04:25 PM
I think I have a hard time considering V/M and D/W a "rivalry" because they're just so darn NICE to each other! No disparaging remarks in interviews, no death glares, no sex skandals. Where's the excitement?! What's happened to ice dance?! :P

It's the kinder, gentler world of ice dance. :P

DORISPULASKI
02-23-2012, 05:16 PM
A case in point (before I've read other posts in this thread) is the close competitions between Klimova/Ponomarenko and Usova/Zhulin, where K/P always came out on top regardless. U/Z actually deserved to win over K/P at some point before having to wait for them to retire!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mdij7eJeEzY

This was a great performance that should have probably won U/Z their first World championship (before they eventually won in 1993). Looking back, I see the Duchesnays won Worlds over K/P and U/Z in 1991, so D/D were also in the rivalry mix in those years. D/D were exciting to watch but did not have the polish and tech skills of K/P and U/Z.

Absolutely agree. U&Z were 1st in the compulsories, and IMO, should have been 1st in the OSP as well. I could not believe the Duchesnays won the OSP with this skate.

D&D OSP
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aYAGtNxrh8&feature=related

U&Z FD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8nCNYjDhng

The Canadian commentators thought they should have won with this FD. The audience were shocked too.

allezfred
02-24-2012, 12:17 AM
It's the kinder, gentler world of ice dance. :P

It sucks. And not the good way either. :P

rosebrallier
02-24-2012, 02:19 AM
I think I have a hard time considering V/M and D/W a "rivalry" because they're just so darn NICE to each other! No disparaging remarks in interviews, no death glares, no sex skandals. Where's the excitement?! What's happened to ice dance?! :P
^^This.

kia_4EverOnIce
02-24-2012, 09:13 PM
Yagudin VS Plushenko...what's best? plus, we had also all the extra backstage fights (aka Mishin vs Tarasova) :)