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danceronice
04-10-2012, 03:44 AM
I am totally happy with Katniss ending up with Peeta and Gale disappearing from view at the end. I have read enough WW2 memoirs to know this is very realistic. The books does mention that Peeta would take care of Katniss if the situation was reversed and she was the one who was hijacked. So when the book said that after he is released the first thing he does is return home and befriend her again I find that a very Peeta thing to do. It also said they grow closer again over time and eventually became a couple.

I agree with this. The ending made sense to me--even if, assuming she could forgive Gale for turning into a 'kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out' revolutionary even BEFORE he and Beetee designed that trap that kills Prim (remember, she's horrified by his willingness to cave in a mountain on the District 2 people and let them suffocate, starve, or be crushed) Gale could never understand what happened to her in the Arena. Heck, even before she realizes he's okay with collateral damage she realizes they aren't on quite the same page when Gale doesn't understand why she feels any sort of empathy or fellow-feeling for her prep team when District 13 tortures and starves them. She saw them as people--silly, vague, rather clueless people, but human beings. Gale took 'us vs. them' and if you're 'them', well, **** you. He's part of District 13 not being any better than the Capitol.

I would have *liked* for her to have more understanding for Peeta sooner, but I get that it makes more sense as it is--they're sort of midway between shell-shocked veterans and Holocaust survivors. That's not even accounting for Peeta having to recover from being brainwashed. I thought the summing up of how they finally went from 'real or not real' to just 'real' worked nicely for a book that, after all, is aimed at younger readers.

And from a purely practical standpoint, no one young and with functioning reproductive systems really gets the luxury of not reproducing once you have a society with that small a population. Might as well be with someone you care about (whereas I suspect in 13 they'd probably assign THAT, too...)

MarieM
04-10-2012, 09:18 AM
I kind of liked the epilogue too.
It was straightforward, not lingering on too many things noone really wants to know.

Enough suffering I would say.

And Katniss was katniss all the way there, Collins made a point of her being the character she is from start to finish. And collins made sure we got the point : Katniss doesn't know how to love anybody but Prim. She has shut herself from all, and Peeta suceeded there in reaching for her ! So why no ? I mean I hate Gale :P

kwanatic
04-10-2012, 01:36 PM
Maybe cop-out isn't the right word for HP, but just stupidness... I think that book would have ended much better in the current time. The epilogue was just too "everything is perfect, all the characters are so happy, and everyone is together with their true love" It didn't fit the tone at all. It didn't even seem like it was written by the same author.

I guess the connection that I was trying to make was the Hunger Games epilogue was too rosy, and again- we are left without anything telling us how they got there.

I get that, definitely. Nineteen years down the road though, I guess it would be okay if everything turned out okay in the end. I doubt if right after Voldemort's death everything immediately turned into sunshine, unicorns and rainbows. There were still Voldy supporters out there and other messes he left that had to be taken care of. But down the road I thought it was nice to know that the couples ended up together and were happy. It wasn't without sacrifice...they lost a lot of people in that war. The ending just showed that life continues on. I liked it. ;)



IIRC, the epilogue was one of the first things Rowling wrote for the HP series. She was certainly a less developed writer back then.

Agreed. I don't think it was poorly written but the idea that all of the characters were adults and sending their children to Hogwarts was written from the beginning, so at least she knew (past all of the horror and death :D) that in the end everyone would be okay. That's a happy ending I can live with.

As for Katniss and Peeta, I liked the ending of them being together. And I agree with those who said there really wasn't another option for them. They were both severely damaged by everything they went through...I doubt if anyone but each other would have understood that. I agree with what happened in the end, I just wasn't fond of the way Collins closed everything out. Those last few chapters could have been wrapped up better than that. It was just too rushed.

bek
04-10-2012, 01:51 PM
I think Katniss did love Peeta. Remember how in the second book, she wanted to make sure that he was the final Survivor. I think Finnick called her out on really loving Peeta, but I don't think Katniss was in a place she could handle it. I think the book left hints it was Peeta all along. Remember how she would sleep in Peeta's arms at night in Catching Fire, and that gave her some epace. It was never like that with Gale.

As for Katniss changing her mind about kids, its not like Katniss reasons for not wanting to have kids was because she didn't like them, wanted to see the worlds etc. Katniss was clear that she didn't want kids, because she didn't want to have to endure her kids going through the reaping, among other things.

It makes sense that in a world where there was no reaping and more hope that Katniss might change her mind. It seems like it was Peeta who really wanted them too. The fact that Katniss was okay with having kids in the new world, shows the world at least got a lot better.

I think that Katniss needed someone with similar experiences. I think that if she hadn't already been falling love with Peeta/Ann wasn't in existence; I could see her and Finnick together (of course Finnick died). Finnick would have been greater competition than Gale.

But I do think Peeta/Katniss compliment each other.

danceronice
04-10-2012, 03:55 PM
I think Katniss did love Peeta. Remember how in the second book, she wanted to make sure that he was the final Survivor. I think Finnick called her out on really loving Peeta, but I don't think Katniss was in a place she could handle it. I think the book left hints it was Peeta all along. Remember how she would sleep in Peeta's arms at night in Catching Fire, and that gave her some epace. It was never like that with Gale.

I think part of that is more joint survivor bonding rather than romantic love, but even in the first games she's definitely physically attracted to Peeta (they have two 'on-screen' kisses where Katniss 'wants more', in the cave in HG and on the beach in CF) and she's got mixed feelings from the outset about him.


As for Katniss changing her mind about kids, its not like Katniss reasons for not wanting to have kids was because she didn't like them, wanted to see the worlds etc. Katniss was clear that she didn't want kids, because she didn't want to have to endure her kids going through the reaping, among other things.

Exactly, and the epilogue emphasizes it takes FIFTEEN YEARS for Peeta to talk her round to the idea. Which sounds reasonable to me. I don't really want to sit through pages of describing their self-therapy for PTSD and reconstruction efforts in 12 and Peeta gently trying to rationalize that it's safe to have children--that's not really the point of books aimed at a 12-17-year-old readership! And honestly it would be boring to me as someone twice the target audience's age.

Rather like, to be honest, I wouldn't want ten chapters of mopping up, wrapping up, social restructuring, etc. in Deathly Hallows. I also have no real problem with "they all lived more or less happily ever after (at least until little Rose and Scorpius Malfoy become angsty teens who totally start a Romeo and Juliet thing just to mess with their parents ;) )" because first, Ron/Hermione and Harry/Ginny (the latter to a lesser extent but still there) have been telegraphed since book one, and the former at least should have been BLINDINGLY obvious since book four (I could see making an argument for Harry/Luna as well until six and seven). And I don't have an issue with giving the hero and his closest allies a happy ending and skipping over nineteen years of cleanup in the process.

I think it's a nice change, actually, in both cases, and why I like HG better than most YA "dark"/dystopian. The characters aren't made to be miserable in the end in HP or HG because that's *real*, man </sarcasm>. It's impossible to argue that either series didn't involve the protagonists sacrificing a lot (every meaningful adult in Harry's life except the Weasleys is dead by the end of Deathly Hallows, Katniss overtly loses her sister and Cinna and her neighbors from 12 and functionally loses her mother and Gale) but that doesn't mean either should spend the rest of their lives wallowing in misery or in some sort of self-imposed cloister.

And, unlike that other YA series (obligatory swipe at Twilight) everything doesn't work out somewhat randomly, with any "sacrifices" voided along the way because it's not a happy ending if the protagonist doesn't get everything she wants without having to give up anything ever! (Seriously, Bella is the poster child for what TV Tropes calls "Protagonist-Centered Morality.")

moojja
04-10-2012, 07:27 PM
About her voting for the last hunger games, she says that before voting she considered everything carefully and decided to vote yes, for Prim. To me that just means that she already knew what she was going to do.

This just occurred to me. But at that point she already knew who was responsible for Prim's death. She know it was President Coin who ordered the bomb. It was Coin who killed Prim, not Snow. So when she said for Prim, and not for Finnick/District 12/ or all the other people Snow harmed, That shows she planed on shooting Coin all along.

danceronice
04-10-2012, 07:28 PM
This just occurred to me. But at that point she already knew who was responsible for Prim's death. She know it was President Collins who ordered the bomb. It was Collins who killed Prim, not Snow. So when she said for Prim, and not for Finnick/District 12/ or all the other people Snow harmed, Thant shows she planed on shooting Collins all along.

"Coin." Collins is the author. ;)

moojja
04-10-2012, 07:40 PM
"Coin." Collins is the author. ;)

Thanks, I made my edits.

Vash01
04-10-2012, 08:19 PM
I am tempted to buy the whole series, and I just might if I see it at Costco.

Skittl1321
04-10-2012, 08:20 PM
"Coin." Collins is the author. ;)

I think the blame goes to Collins. Coin would have never done it if Collins didn't make her :)


Is it safe to assume with Coin dead, the Capital kids Hunger Games never happened? Since she didn't have time to announce it?
I really want to know what Johanna's ending was. That girl was messed up. Did she ever get happiness in her life?

Spareoom
04-11-2012, 04:05 AM
So, it's official; Gary Ross isn't coming back.

Regardless of how you felt about his direction for the first HG movie, nobody can deny that it's an interesting twist to the franchise saga. Lionsgate has SO little time to turn production around and start work on Catching Fire, and now they have to go director hunting. Here's hoping that they can find someone who is passionate about the books and not just interested in the publicity and fame that comes with directing a series like this.

Since Gary isn't doing the next movie, who do you think should do it? Honestly I'd go for any decent director who was really passionate about the books, but if I had to just randomly pick a name out of a hat I'd choose Andrew Adamson, I guess. He has experience with book adaptations before (Narnia) and while some Narnia fans were not pleased with his directing and adaptation choices, I always respected the fact that he really was a HUGE fan of the books and worked to make the best film that he could. Prince Caspian ranks among one of my favorite films ever, and that's not JUST because I'm a Narnia fan. (The other two films were so-so, lol). Anyway, if he were interested, I'd be happy to see him direct Catching Fire.

One plus about Andrew Adamson is that he's not afraid to use CGI and technology to his advantage. You'd see a big improvement in special effects under his guidance!

genevieve
04-11-2012, 04:24 AM
I loathe CGI, so based on your assessment, I hope Andrew Adamson is not the next director.

Spareoom
04-11-2012, 04:31 AM
Well, I think you loath BAD CGI, right? Because with good CGI, you technically aren't supposed to know it's being used. ;)

MacMadame
04-11-2012, 04:58 AM
They should get Alfonso Cuaron!

escaflowne9282
04-11-2012, 05:06 AM
I finally saw the movie, it's an ok/decent flick, but I am not getting the fuss :shuffle:
I will admit, it's better than that wretched Twilight. This movie actually had likeable characters.