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View Full Version : Whitney Houston has died



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cruisin
02-19-2012, 12:26 AM
^^ Another thing that sometimes happens is that an addict who is using drugs, like coke and is in recovery, can convince them self that alcohol is not their addiction. So, they believe they can handle alcohol, since it was not their drug of choice. I know it sounds foolish, but it does happen.

FiveRinger
02-19-2012, 12:37 AM
I don't know if this is going to be a popular opinion but I blame Clive Davis for many of Whitney's troubles. I haven't liked him for a long time so maybe my views are skewed by my dislike for him. He found Whitney at a young age and then, and excuse my choice of words, he made her his slave. He hand picked everything for her from her songs to her clothes to how she did her hair. She just did as told. I think she went along with it for a while and then she began rebelling in her own ways, with drugs. Instead of making sure she got REAL help, Clive would hide her away and use some major PR spin to keep the media in the dark. This wasn't helping her, it was telling her that no matter what mess she caused it would always be cleaned up. No wonder she never was able to really quit, she had no reason to quit.


I post an interview with Clive (before Whitney died) in this thread. He pretty much said that he separates himself from the people he works with personally/professionally. I.e he's open for anything during the work week but on weekends that's HIS time with his family. He apparently said that he considers the artist personal life none of his concern as long as they are professional when they are performing for HIM. It wasn't until Bobby Brown went to jail and he felt it had completely gotten out of control publically that he brought up rehab-for her and Bobby.

He may very well cared but it was a professional relationship.

It's a shame, really, that it comes to this. Show business is a business, and he treats it that way. There's a lot of pressure, probably more than anyone ever dreamed of, and unfortunately lots of people in the business develop addictions as a way to cope.

alchemy void
02-19-2012, 12:53 AM
Unfortunately, the only thing I can think of when discussing Clive Davis is the time he was a guest judge on season 3 American Idol and Fantasia pretty much gave him a lap dance during her performance and he had a big grin on his face. :yikes: It was the perfect combination of hysterical and creepy.

It's hard for me to judge him, Whitney, Bobby, or her family for her drug use because none of us likely know the full extent of the story or ever will.

loopey
02-19-2012, 02:21 AM
Al Sharpton tweeting from the ceremony? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
The only really annoying part of the ceremony for me was seeing Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson sitting front-and-center. At least Jesse didn't speak (for which I am truly grateful). Not. A. Fan.

News reports here, are saying that Bobby Brown was not expected to show with 9 people. He sat in the first row, was asked to move, and moved to the second row, and was asked to move again. The first three rows were reserved for the speakers/participants. His statement says he left because he did not want to cause a scene. Not causing a scene, IMO is to sit where told, shut up, cooperate, and silently support your daughter.

I agree with whomever up-thread that mentioned CeCe Winan's voice. It is truly amazing. I have heard her live, and it is amazing! I remember hearing her and Whitney sing together live and thinking WOW!

Prancer
02-19-2012, 02:44 AM
I don't know if this is going to be a popular opinion but I blame Clive Davis for many of Whitney's troubles. I haven't liked him for a long time so maybe my views are skewed by my dislike for him. He found Whitney at a young age and then, and excuse my choice of words, he made her his slave. He hand picked everything for her from her songs to her clothes to how she did her hair.

Um, this happens to a lot artists. It's called packaging. Happens all the time.

Even if she just went along with it, it was her choice to go along with it.

One of the things that addicts must accept is that they are solely responsible for their addictions--because they are. Blaming other people is one of the things that allows them to rationalize their drug and alcohol abuse.


I wish that Whitney would've realized how dangerous alcohol addiction was when Amy Winehouse died that way.

Do you really think addicts are unaware that drugs and alcohol can kill people?

ilovepaydays
02-19-2012, 03:06 AM
Do you really think addicts are unaware that drugs and alcohol can kill people?

I think that even if they do, a lot of them still think that ending could never happen to them.

Twizzler
02-19-2012, 03:11 AM
Tyler Perry made some reference to an incident that happened when Whitney was young that caused people to believe that she may never speak, let alone sing. Does anyone know what he was talking about?

John 3 17
02-19-2012, 03:19 AM
Do you really think addicts are unaware that drugs and alcohol can kill people?

No, I should've said "scared her" not "realized".

PeterG
02-19-2012, 03:50 AM
It's hard for me to judge him, Whitney, Bobby, or her family for her drug use because none of us likely know the full extent of the story or ever will.

Don't let not having all the facts about people you will never know keep you from judging them. It hasn't stopped multiple other people in this thread...

:yikes:

:scream:

iloveemoticons
02-19-2012, 04:03 AM
I wonder how much financial problems affected her mental state later on. I read something about her house getting foreclosed on, and then she can't make a comeback because her voice has given out :( She definitely didn't have a business empire like J.Lo or Beyonce...singing was always her main thing, and people leaving her later concerts because of her voice issues must have been devastating. And on top of all that, people in the public eye have to have all these very personal struggles with money, drugs, and family problems in front of the whole world. They can't ever have a fresh start. I think that definitely makes addictions harder to deal with.

Prancer
02-19-2012, 04:03 AM
No, I should've said "scared her" not "realized".

Amy Winehouse told people for years that she would die from drinking too much, but it didn't stop her.

Innumerable addicts have reacted to the deaths of addicted friends by numbing themselves with their poisons of choice.

Rational decision making and learning from observation are not characteristics one finds in addicts. If they were capable of that, it wouldn't be so difficult for them to go to rehab or stop using altogether.

Rex
02-19-2012, 04:11 AM
Tyler Perry made some reference to an incident that happened when Whitney was young that caused people to believe that she may never speak, let alone sing. Does anyone know what he was talking about?

She was playing with a coat hanger and in a freak accident, jammed it down her throat, almost decapitating her uvula(sp?) and they had to surgically reattach it.

bek
02-19-2012, 04:57 AM
It's a shame, really, that it comes to this. Show business is a business, and he treats it that way. There's a lot of pressure, probably more than anyone ever dreamed of, and unfortunately lots of people in the business develop addictions as a way to cope.

But is Clive necessarily wrong for doing this? It IS a business and he's was her boss. He runs a multimilion dollar company, and she's his multi million dollar investment. A lot of people who work for him depend on Clive making sound decisions on who to invest in talent wise and who not to invest in talent wise. Invest in the wrong people that could cost a lot of jobs.

So how fair would it be for Clive to pretend to be best friends with the talent; when eventually he may have to drop them. Its not fair to him, not fair to the company, and frankly not fair to the talent. In those type of situations isn't it better to be just professional? One has to wonder how much money Whitney's been hemoraging lately. I wouldn't be surprised if he absolutely did care-but she was his employee.

FiveRinger
02-19-2012, 05:20 AM
But is Clive necessarily wrong for doing this? It IS a business and he's was her boss. He runs a multimilion dollar company, and she's his multi million dollar investment. A lot of people who work for him depend on Clive making sound decisions on who to invest in talent wise and who not to invest in talent wise. Invest in the wrong people that could cost a lot of jobs.

So how fair would it be for Clive to pretend to be best friends with the talent; when eventually he may have to drop them. Its not fair to him, not fair to the company, and frankly not fair to the talent. In those type of situations isn't it better to be just professional? One has to wonder how much money Whitney's been hemoraging lately. I wouldn't be surprised if he absolutely did care-but she was his employee.

I don't disagree. I just think that it's sad that that's the way it is

bek
02-19-2012, 05:42 AM
I don't disagree. I just think that it's sad that that's the way it is

Many say though that Clive DID try to get her to rehab. Here's though a very interesting thing. Apparently some news reports are saying that Whitney NEVER changed her will after the divorce- guess whose the sole beneficiary of her estate: Her ex hubby. We will see. There could definetly be some drama going on if thats the case. :eek: