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Rafter
02-19-2012, 07:58 PM
Her triple lutz is great! Her 3lz+3t is clean too. :)

Why did she not do a 3lutz at Canadians if it is so great?

Sylvia
02-19-2012, 08:48 PM
ShawTVEdmonton uploaded this news piece on Kaetlyn Osmond on Feb 17: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skMI9IcDFG4

Osmond: "In both programs we added a new jump that I haven't actually done in competition yet - it's my triple Lutz - so... really looking forward to trying that. And then we also added a triple-triple into my long."

JanetB
02-19-2012, 11:57 PM
Why did she not do a 3lutz at Canadians if it is so great?

It could be that the 3t/3t and the 3 lutz started to gel at the same time and they didn't want to put 2 new to competition elements in her programs at one time.

mag
03-06-2012, 04:30 AM
There was an interesting segment last night on the CBC coverage of Junior Worlds. It was called something like, searching for the next Canadian sweetheart. Tracy Wilson made some interesting comments about why we aren't as successful with the women as with the men. One of the things she stressed was that we need to support girls as they go through puberty. We need to not jump all over them and call them head cases when they have a bad season. The changes in their bodies take time to adjust to and they need confidence building not tearing down while they are trying to adjust. The other comment she made was that in some other countries they are fine with taking forty girls and working them hard, and seeing who comes out the other end. They don't worry about the ones that fall off during the process. She said that as a society, Canadians want to support and encourage all skaters to get reach their potential. This could mean that resources are spread more thinly than in a system where only the top few get support.
It was an interesting segment and is probably available to watch on CBC.ca

Sylvia
03-06-2012, 04:34 AM
It was an interesting segment and is probably available to watch on CBC.ca
Here's the direct link to the 10-minute segment titled "The Big Picture: Legacy of Ladies Skating: Examining the next generation of Canadian female figure skaters" (not geoblocked): http://www.cbc.ca/sports/figureskating/video/#id=2205235358
Doug Leigh, Jennifer Robinson, and Josée Chouinard are among those interviewed and Tracy Wilson and Pj Kwong contribute commentary afterwards.

Sylvia
03-11-2012, 01:59 AM
Reposting from the Challenge Cup thread in Kiss and Cry:

Great to see Gabrielle Daleman do well here, very good score considering that she missed the lutz today. Skate Canada better use all of its ladies' spots on the Junior GP, as there are a lot of talented ladies that need to get out there - Osmond (if she doesn't do senior GP), Daleman, Alaine Chartrand, Jayda Jurome, Julianne Seguin, plus who knows who will show up with big improvements after the summer.
Yes, positive news for Daleman who won the silver medal in Junior Ladies (85.42 in FS, 132.48 total score) and she rotated the 3Lz (-1 GOE) in the SP.

nadioso
03-27-2012, 09:17 PM
With regards to Erin's post

Skate Canada has always filled their ladies slots over the years. They have never had max JGP slots ( they only had 4 this year )

It is true that SC has left mens, dance and pairs slots blank over the years but they never could do this with the ladies.

Where SC has gone wrong is staying with perennial failures for several seasons. Skaters like Kang, Grenier and Najarro got a lot of JGP assignments with no good results. These skaters got 3 or 4 good seasons of JGP experience each without a single solid result from any of them.

In previous seasons , it could be argued that the younger talent did not step up over the summer so that these older veterans who usually skated well at nationals but consistently failed internationally would get the assignments by default.

This season however, SC made a big mistake in sendiing Najarro when there were in fact younger ladies ( Daleman for example ) who did step up in the summer and did show readiness for the JGP.

In the 2012 JGP season Canada will have six slots. Since Charbonneau and Najarro have aged out, we can look forward to a bunch of exciting new faces.

fan
03-27-2012, 09:39 PM
With regards to Erin's post

In the 2012 JGP season Canada will have six slots. Since Charbonneau and Najarro have aged out, we can look forward to a bunch of exciting new faces.

who does everyone expect to see filling the 6 spots? I see (ok, I'd like to see)
2 x - Daleman
1 x - Seguin
1 x - Jurome
1 x - Chartrand (I hope!)
1 x - Mallet or Rheault, depending on who has the 3 Flip (required SP jump)

I'd like to see them send Dunley, but it wont happen.

At the same time, I can still see them sending Purich out too.

Habs
03-27-2012, 09:54 PM
who does everyone expect to see filling the 6 spots? I see (ok, I'd like to see)
2 x - Daleman
1 x - Seguin
1 x - Jurome
1 x - Chartrand (I hope!)
1 x - Mallet or Rheault, depending on who has the 3 Flip (required SP jump)

I'd like to see them send Dunley, but it wont happen.

At the same time, I can still see them sending Purich out too.


I will be curious to see if Kaetlyn Osmond competes as a junior or a senior next year.

nadioso
03-27-2012, 10:18 PM
who does everyone expect to see filling the 6 spots? I see (ok, I'd like to see)
2 x - Daleman
1 x - Seguin
1 x - Jurome
1 x - Chartrand (I hope!)
1 x - Mallet or Rheault, depending on who has the 3 Flip (required SP jump)

I'd like to see them send Dunley, but it wont happen.

At the same time, I can still see them sending Purich out too.

Mallet only has the next season where she can do JGP and she still has not gone past the triple toe , triple salchow stage. She turns 18 this June. So unless she shows tremendous improvement, giving her a JGP is not sound strategy.

Rheault turns 17 this April and the triple toe is her only reliable triple.

I would rather see Dunley get one than either Mallet or Rheault. She has far more upside ( consistent toe and salchow and has 4 JGP seasons left ).I

Unfortunately Rheault and Mallet are high on SC's radar ( they were both listed as substitutes for the JGP last season ) when the far more impressive ( and much younger ) Daleman did not even get considered.

Erin
03-27-2012, 10:59 PM
With regards to Erin's post

Skate Canada has always filled their ladies slots over the years. They have never had max JGP slots ( they only had 4 this year )

It is true that SC has left mens, dance and pairs slots blank over the years but they never could do this with the ladies.

Given how many spots SC left blank last year in other disciplines, I would never assume they will use all the slots.

I'm pretty sure we have max JGP slots in ladies at least once - for sure after Rochette was 5th (behind only Japanese and American skaters) at Jr. Worlds. I also think we were first in line to pick up extra spots after Charbonneau was 6th at Jr. Worlds, but chose not to use them. Plus, we should be taking more advantage of events like Triglav, Challenge Cup (I'm glad Daleman was sent this year at least), and other spring internationals.


Where SC has gone wrong is staying with perennial failures for several seasons. Skaters like Kang, Grenier and Najarro got a lot of JGP assignments with no good results. These skaters got 3 or 4 good seasons of JGP experience each without a single solid result from any of them.

I agree that this has been an big issue. With only 4 slots this past year, I can somewhat understand the challenge for SC, but I think that after Najarro's bomb at Jr. Worlds, she really didn't need another chance.


In the 2012 JGP season Canada will have six slots. Since Charbonneau and Najarro have aged out, we can look forward to a bunch of exciting new faces.

Agreed about the new faces. I can never remember the rules about who gets to pick up extra spots - is there any chance we could pick up extra slots if other countries don't use theirs?


I will be curious to see if Kaetlyn Osmond competes as a junior or a senior next year.

Me too. At first, I had strongly wanted her to get out on the senior GP, but I'm leaning towards JGP now. She's not high enough on the SB list or in the World standings to get an automatic invite to another country's event and wouldn't be high up on the sub list. She'd likely only get Skate Canada and a Senior B and without a high finish, wouldn't get much for ISU points. For that reason, I think that JGP is probably better for her to be able to build up ISU points, especially if she qualified for the final. Then she could still do the senior championships later in the season if she were to qualify and hopefully not be buried as one of the low-ranked skaters (or at least be able to build up points to get ahead for the following season).

The downside is that would cut some other talented skaters out of the JGP. It's a tough call, unless Canada is able to pick up slots from other countries. I think more young skaters need to be sent out to Senior B events as well - if SC wants to give someone like Rheault international experience, send her to a Sr. B instead of taking up JGP slots. Charbonneau could also benefit from one, she actually had a decent Canadians. Unfortunately, SC doesn't seem to bother with any Sr. B except Nebelhorn and canned Thornhill as a Sr. B last year.

nadioso
03-27-2012, 11:59 PM
Given how many spots SC left blank last year in other disciplines, I would never assume they will use all the slots.

I'm pretty sure we have max JGP slots in ladies at least once - for sure after Rochette was 5th (behind only Japanese and American skaters) at Jr. Worlds. I also think we were first in line to pick up extra spots after Charbonneau was 6th at Jr. Worlds, but chose not to use them. Plus, we should be taking more advantage of events like Triglav, Challenge Cup (I'm glad Daleman was sent this year at least), and other spring internationals.


Agreed about the new faces. I can never remember the rules about who gets to pick up extra spots - is there any chance we could pick up extra slots if other countries don't use theirs?




I won't go back to Rochette's days as the rules for JGP slots were very different in those days.

When Charbonneau finished 6th , Canada was the 4th highest country.

Extra slots can be had when one of the top 12 countries ( those that get 6 or more JGP spots ) fail to use all their slots. Only the 4th and 5th countries even have a right to extra slots.

Yes Canada would have first dibs at those slots. Unfortunately none are to be had from the top 3 countries that year (Japan , US and Russia). So we might have been able to get a spot from a country that had 6 or 7 slots. Would be interesting to see if countries 5-12 used all their slots. BTW countries 5 and 6 which also had 7 slots guaranteed were Sweden and Germany. Countries 7 - 12 ( 6 slots ) were France, Estonia , Switzerland , Turkey , Finland and Denmark. I would look most at the countries with 6 slots other than Finland and France as I think slots could have been picked up there.

This year as Skate Canada is only the 7th best country ( hence six slots ) , they won't have any chance for extra slots.

mag
03-28-2012, 03:06 AM
It would be interesting if SC made one of the summer competitions a mandatory competition for JGP assignments. A different competition could be used for each of the disciplines to spread things around a bit, but it would be a show up if you want to challenge for a spot scenario. They could do some sort of average with the skater's score a Nationals and then give the spots out based on the highest scores. Perhaps there could be a bonus for landing the mandatory solo triple in the short and some sort of system to account for the skater's age - ie, older skaters with only one JGP season left would require a higher score than someone with 3 or 4 seasons left.

nadioso
03-28-2012, 04:12 PM
It would be interesting if SC made one of the summer competitions a mandatory competition for JGP assignments. A different competition could be used for each of the disciplines to spread things around a bit, but it would be a show up if you want to challenge for a spot scenario. They could do some sort of average with the skater's score a Nationals and then give the spots out based on the highest scores. Perhaps there could be a bonus for landing the mandatory solo triple in the short and some sort of system to account for the skater's age - ie, older skaters with only one JGP season left would require a higher score than someone with 3 or 4 seasons left.

In ice dance we already unofficially have that as usually all the junior ice dance couples will show up at Minto. The pairs are a little less centralized but they generally all compete in Quebec or Thornhill.

It would be much harder to do this for the ladies because of the increased numbers involved.

However, having event finals in all disciplines in all competitions would go a long way to centralizing the system without any problems.

It is important to have is finals in all events with large fields that have to be separated into multiple groups. That way the best skaters from different groups will be forced to face off against each other. Right now our best skaters constantly compete in weak fields . This has to be implemented at all levels and competitions across Canada starting at pre-juvenile. That way our most talented skaters get to face off against each other often and create the environment where they push each other. Only Thornhill from pre-novice to junior has event finals in this situation.

I do think the age thing should be considered. That would help prevent the perennial international failures ( ie Kang , Grenier and Najarro ) from clogging up the spots. Better to give it to the younger ones even if they are a little behind the older ones as it is clear in these cases the older ones are likely going nowhere and the younger ones can use the experience better in the long term.

Seerek
03-28-2012, 07:38 PM
There was some momentum when Joannie Rochette was 5th and Lauren Wilson was 8th at 2002 Junior Worlds, earning 3 spots for 2003. Unfortunately, none of Signe Ronka, Amanda Billings or Meghan Duhamel were able to finish top 12 at 2003 Jr. Worlds, bringing Canada back down to 1 spot for 2004 (which in fact went to Senior National Champion Cynthia Phaneuf).

Since then, it's been an unfortunate cycle of Junior Champions not really following through into seniors.