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euterpe
02-13-2012, 01:41 AM
It is looking pretty grim for Canadian ladies right now. I only hope Brian is able to work his magic on Cynthia like he did on Javier - but that will obviously take time.

Javier wasn't yet 20 and was in the early stages of his Senior career when Brian took him on. Cynthia is 24 and has been skating as a senior since 2004, and her skating habits have been engrained in her for a long, long time. Most elite skaters' careers start to wane as they approach 25, and IMO Cynthia's already entered that phase. I doubt Orser can help her.

As for Lacoste vs Phaneuf, it doesn't matter which one goes to Worlds 2012, as the result will pretty much be the same. Neither one is likely to crack top 10. Since Amelie beat Cynthia at both Nationals and 4CC, Amelie should get the nod.

Sylvia
02-13-2012, 01:48 AM
Who wound up getting the Worlds spot? I'm guessing 4CCs wasn't quite as effective as they'd hoped.
Lacoste was named to the World team today: http://www.cbc.ca/sports/figureskating/story/2012/02/12/sp-lacoste-skate.html

Marco
02-13-2012, 03:50 AM
Maybe leaving Phaneuf home is a good thing. Her only one good competition since recovery from injury was 2010 Worlds. Now she can have more time to rework things with Brian (darn that lutz). I suspect most of the work is with her head, not her blade.

Congrats on Lacoste for making Worlds. If Phaneuf comes back strong next season, Lacoste will pretty much be fighting for her own spot by placing top ten at Worlds.

fan
02-13-2012, 03:55 AM
in practise, phaneuf lands maybe 1/10 lutzes. not all of her issues are mental - brian will probably rework the lutz technique.

vmfan89
02-13-2012, 04:00 AM
You just have to persuade the young girls up there in Canada that they don't have to play ice hockey be tough and strong. ;)

This. A lot of canadian girls, especially in my community will prefer to play hockey or ringette than to figure skate. This could be problematic in the future is the number of girls entering skating is reduced.

Vagabond
02-13-2012, 04:17 AM
This. A lot of canadian girls, especially in my community will prefer to play hockey or ringette than to figure skate. This could be problematic in the future is the number of girls entering skating is reduced.

Thank goodness your boys at least aren't afraid to be considered graceful and artistic if they take up figure skating. ;)

bbkenn
02-13-2012, 04:18 AM
They should ask the Canadian audience to stop giving out standing ovations for crap skating.

And having Stojko and Robinson as multiple National Champions can't be good for inspiration.

I agree about Robinson, but Elvis, even if you don't like him, was a very successful skater with multiple Canadian championships, 3 time World champion, 2 time Olympic Silver medalist... So I wouldn't call him a crap skater; that's just nuts.

nadioso
02-13-2012, 04:26 AM
One huge problem is the competitive structure .

In mens, pairs and dance summer and fall competitions, all entrants compete in one group.

In ladies, they are separated into several groups since there are many more entries than the other disciplines.

The medals are given out for each group. The best skaters never face each other in a final.

This means that our ladies compete in diluted fields with no incentive to push each other.

I have seen a "winner" of a junior ladies group at one of the bigger fall competitions ( Octoberfest which is run by Central Ontario section ) land nothing more than a double axel. Even worse the said skater did not even try any triples in the warmup.

The only ladies competition with event finals ( pre-novice to junior ) is Thornhill.

Until we have event finals in all competitions at all levels, starting at pre-juvenile; the ladies will not improve. It is important that our best skaters face each other in competition often. Even within a section, often the only time the best skaters in that section face off in competition is at sectionals.

The juveniles and pre-juveniles do not have a national competition and their highest competition is only sectionals. Considering that a typical summer or fall competition has skaters from multiple sections, having event finals has the potential of creating an even better field than a typical sectionals event.

Marco
02-13-2012, 05:39 AM
I agree about Robinson, but Elvis, even if you don't like him, was a very successful skater with multiple Canadian championships, 3 time World champion, 2 time Olympic Silver medalist... So I wouldn't call him a crap skater; that's just nuts.

How will Stojko's success (solely based on jumps) ever inspire a lady skater to work on style? or spins? or choreography? or expression?

manhn
02-13-2012, 05:43 AM
Yeah, because the men after Stojko had no style or spin or choreography.

essence_of_soy
02-13-2012, 05:54 AM
Their skater who won the short program at Nationals, Kaityln Osmond looks very promising, though. I believe she is being sent to Junior Worlds.

Here a link to her short:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6He7VoOye8&feature=related

Sylvia
02-13-2012, 06:01 AM
Gabrielle Daleman, age 14, is the 2012 Canadian Junior Ladies champion and she landed 3Lz, 3S+2T and 2A in her SP: http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/19815294

ltnskater
02-13-2012, 01:25 PM
At the pre-novice/novice level there are bonuses for putting in more difficult jumps. I think looking at the Novice and Junior competition from nationals things are looking a lot more positive on the ladies front. Puberty will always take out some girls it's just the way it goes. If you want a successful model, look at what Karen & Jason Mongrain are doing in Kelowna. It's amazing what they've produced/are producing there.

O right, I forgot about these bonuses (cause most of my skating friends are either at the junior/senior level, or now quit after competing under rules where there were no bonuses), and yes, that too is a good start. They have just been implemented recently, and hopefully we will see the effects of those rules in the years to come.


in practise, phaneuf lands maybe 1/10 lutzes. not all of her issues are mental - brian will probably rework the lutz technique.

Thank you! Yes! I always suspected it was a combination of both mental and technical issues, confirmed when I saw her in practice last summer briefly... lutzes were not even consistent on practice which first of all, probably means they won't be there in competition, and second of all, does not give her good confidence in the jump.

ltnskater
02-13-2012, 01:31 PM
One huge problem is the competitive structure .

In mens, pairs and dance summer and fall competitions, all entrants compete in one group.

In ladies, they are separated into several groups since there are many more entries than the other disciplines.

The medals are given out for each group. The best skaters never face each other in a final.

This means that our ladies compete in diluted fields with no incentive to push each other.

I have seen a "winner" of a junior ladies group at one of the bigger fall competitions ( Octoberfest which is run by Central Ontario section ) land nothing more than a double axel. Even worse the said skater did not even try any triples in the warmup.

The only ladies competition with event finals ( pre-novice to junior ) is Thornhill.

Until we have event finals in all competitions at all levels, starting at pre-juvenile; the ladies will not improve. It is important that our best skaters face each other in competition often. Even within a section, often the only time the best skaters in that section face off in competition is at sectionals.

The juveniles and pre-juveniles do not have a national competition and their highest competition is only sectionals. Considering that a typical summer or fall competition has skaters from multiple sections, having event finals has the potential of creating an even better field than a typical sectionals event.

Ironically, one of my really good friends also won Octoberfest a few years back with only a double axel (two of them), in her group... at the novice level. :D

And then at the thornhill competition this year... one of my friends placed near the top in the long program doing one triple and two double axels... at the senior level (which by the way has no split groups). :D I was very happy for her though!

Jammers
02-13-2012, 02:10 PM
Bear more children (esp. girls). Recruit more people from outside Canada (Get Paulina Whovever--any of the Paulinas!). Bribe Joannie to return to competitive skating.

Canada's population is A LOT smaller than Japan, Russia and the US. Canada won't have the same depth in one discipline (although dance is strong at the moment) or across all disciplines (although Japan's pairs and ice dance programs are weak).

I have no idea what Robinson and esp. 3-time World Champion Stokjo has to do with it. Both are skaters who did the best they did with what they had. To me, if I saw that with Canadian ladies and we got the same results, I'd be okay with it.

I think the population thing is a bit that's an excuse. Yes the US has a much bigger population but the whole of Canada is in cold weather country while most of the US is not. Imagine how many great athletes in the US never see an ice rink or play ice sports because they live in the south or other warm weather places. Places like Florida and Texas for instance where so many world class athletes come from. And plus there are so many other sports here that kids want to play. Like football and baseball.