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Japanfan
02-11-2012, 09:04 AM
I didn't like this man at all to be honest, he had a rough edge that was a bit frightening. Nor did I like that he shot the laptop. I'd prefer for guns not to be a tool in disciplining children.

Hannah certainly wasn't very smart to post her rant on Facebook, especially given that her dad is in IT.

On the one hand, I suppose parents can jump on the Faceback bandwagon to communicate with their kids. But on the other hand, I kept thinking that he should have been talking directly to Hannah rather than to a camera. . .

I know teenagers can be difficult. I tormented my own poor parents terribly in my teens.

But it seems to me that there is a major problem here between the father and daughter. If there weren't, would either be sharing their anger and resentment on FB?

Angelskates
02-11-2012, 10:23 AM
But it seems to me that there is a major problem here between the father and daughter. If there weren't, would either be sharing their anger and resentment on FB?

And to the world. I keep wondering if they actually want to fix the situation, because it seems to me it's all about attention seeking rather than working on their relationship. What did the father hope to achieve?

Ozzisk8tr
02-11-2012, 10:53 AM
So if she gets Dad's gun and shoots him during the night, I wouldn't be surprised. What a pathetic family. So many Americans love of guns is just so frightening to me.

joeperryfan
02-11-2012, 10:53 AM
Just my two cents, but is there a chance the father wanted to show his daughter how quickly things spread on the internet and how they are not private at all? Or maybe he really wanted to embarrass her using her own methods. Kids don't understand the extent of what they do online unless it bytes them in the posterior, of course it's also the parents job to explain that nothing is private online.

FigureSpins
02-11-2012, 11:44 AM
The father's already posted several responses via Facebook and in interviews.
http://www.facebook.com/tommyjordaniii


In the meantime, once the initial anger passed,... she sat with me reviewing some of the comments that have come in via Facebook and YouTube. One person even suggested collecting the shell casings and auctioning them on eBay. I said I’d do it if it would help contribute to her college fund! When I told her about it, she thought a minute, got a funny calculating expression on her face and said, “in that case you should shoot my phone too. We can use more bullets and I’ll go half-sies with ya on it! It’s not like I’m going to need it any time soon. And I can use the money we get to buy a new one.”

Read more: http://www.litefm.com/cc-common/mainheadlines3.html?feed=421220&article=9744152#ixzz1m4X4YCIc

He later recanted this somewhat, saying he wasn't going to let her make money off of the situation. On Facebook, he keeps posting about his fundraising for charity and how people are making donations to the cause.

Probably hoping to make the Telethon later this year.

MacMadame
02-11-2012, 08:18 PM
IME, at least, reacting like this usually makes the rebellion worse. Posting this on his daughter's Facebook feed so her friends can see it is a bad idea in more ways than one, IMO.

I'd be interested as well. The stuff he's posted make it seem like he and his daughter have sat down and talked and that they have a better understanding now. He seems to think that shooting the laptop was the shock she needed to take him seriously. He mentioned that when they talked, she said she didn't remember prior talks. My daughter is like that. She says what she has to in order to get her way and minimize the damage but it doesn't penetrate.

I also think it's interesting to see the reactions that are extreme on both sides. Like the one advocating for spanking being brought back as acceptable discipline -- because hitting people solves all parenting woes as we all know no kids had discipline problems back when spanking was the norm :rolleyes: -- and the ones predicting his daughter will become a prostitute or commit suicide -- because punishing kids destroys their pysche :rolleyes: or something.

Prancer
02-12-2012, 10:36 PM
The father's already posted several responses via Facebook and in interviews.
http://www.facebook.com/tommyjordaniii

I read a little of his page yesterday, until I couldn't stand to read any more.

First he said he wasn't a great dad and he had his bad days. The video day was his worst day ever as a father--except the only thing he would change about it would be his hat and the cigarette in his hand. So maybe his worst day was still a pretty good day, I guess.

Then he went on at length about how he has flaws and failings.

Then he concluded with a nice long self-righteous rant about how he was raising his kids "old fashioned" and the way kids are raised today sucks, the schools suck, child labor laws suck, and Obama is an idiot.

Yeah. But he doesn't think much of himself as a father or anything. :rolleyes:


I also think it's interesting to see the reactions that are extreme on both sides. Like the one advocating for spanking being brought back as acceptable discipline -- because hitting people solves all parenting woes as we all know no kids had discipline problems back when spanking was the norm :rolleyes: -- and the ones predicting his daughter will become a prostitute or commit suicide -- because punishing kids destroys their pysche :rolleyes: or something.

But spanking still is the norm--roughly 80% of preschoolers in this country are spanked. I always :rolleyes: at people who think spanking needs to make a comeback--it's never gone away. I also think it's rather hilarious how most people who advocate spanking will always talk about how often their butts were busted when they were growing up. If spanking is such an awesome disciplinary tool, you'd think it would be more effective than that.

At the same time, kids are pretty sturdy and can take a whole lot worse than having their laptops shot to death. I actually thought that was kind of funny, if sinfully wasteful.

But we shall see--or not. Does anyone know what happened to that girl whose mother made her go stand out on the street with the sign saying she would work for food? Or if this kid's (http://bossip.com/345725/smh-florida-mother-makes-son-stand-on-the-corner-holding-up-a-sign-saying-he-has-bad-grades/)grades improved? Yeah, me, either.

PeterG
02-13-2012, 01:28 AM
Or if this kid's (http://bossip.com/345725/smh-florida-mother-makes-son-stand-on-the-corner-holding-up-a-sign-saying-he-has-bad-grades/)grades improved?

Wow. :eek: I think her parenting skills pale in comparison to his grades...

MacMadame
02-13-2012, 05:27 AM
But spanking still is the norm--roughly 80% of preschoolers in this country are spanked. I always :rolleyes: at people who think spanking needs to make a comeback--it's never gone away.

I think that's a misleading statistic though. I've spanked both my kids. Maybe 1 or 2 times each when they were very little and I was very frustrated. But I don't really believe in spanking (I think it's pretty ineffectual as a punishment) and it's not something I'm proud of or did regularly.

I know a lot of parents like me who don't really believe in spanking but find themselves doing it a few times over the course of raising their kids for various reasons (frustration, trying something new because the other stuff isn't working, etc.). When I was growing up, though, most parents spanked regularly and firmly believed in spanking as a discipline technique.

So I believe 80% of today's preschoolers have been spanked. I don't believe 80% of preschoolers are spanked on a regular basis as part of what their parents believe to be proper discipline.

Prancer
02-13-2012, 10:49 AM
I think that's a misleading statistic though. I've spanked both my kids. Maybe 1 or 2 times each when they were very little and I was very frustrated. But I don't really believe in spanking (I think it's pretty ineffectual as a punishment) and it's not something I'm proud of or did regularly.

I know a lot of parents like me who don't really believe in spanking but find themselves doing it a few times over the course of raising their kids for various reasons (frustration, trying something new because the other stuff isn't working, etc.). When I was growing up, though, most parents spanked regularly and firmly believed in spanking as a discipline technique.

So I believe 80% of today's preschoolers have been spanked. I don't believe 80% of preschoolers are spanked on a regular basis as part of what their parents believe to be proper discipline.

Let's say that you are right. None of that negates the fact that spanking is far from obsolete. You can think spanking is wrong all you like; if you do it, you do it, regardless of your philosophical stance.

Now let's say that the majority of Americans approve of spanking--which they do, according to polls. Take the 65% of Americans who approve of spanking, add in the parents who don't believe in spanking but spank sometimes, anyway, and it seems to me that you have a norm that is alive and well.

Depending on your statistical source, spanking may be even more common than that:

Well, depending on where you look for statistics, anywhere between 65% to 90% of American parents are spanking their kids. Here are some statistics I found:

- 68 percent of American parents think spanking is not only good but essential to child rearing;

- 90 percent of parents spank their toddlers at least three times a week; two-thirds spank them once a day;

- One in four parents begin to spank when their child is 6 months old, 50 percent when their child is 12 months old;

http://www.positive-parents.org/2011/07/whats-wrong-with-kids-today.html

I think those are tad high, but they are within the spectrum of the stats I've seen.

julieann
02-13-2012, 05:07 PM
I think if a poll was done in prisons, spankings are not the reason most of the inmates are in there. I could be wrong though, I've never done one.

Prancer
02-13-2012, 09:20 PM
I think if a poll was done in prisons, spankings are not the reason most of the inmates are in there.

Assuming that spankings leads to incarceration is a classic post hoc fallacy; correlation is not causation.

The argument usually runs that most convicted felons were regularly spanked and are still convicted felons, ergo spanking doesn't do a whole lot to deter antisocial behaviors.

I'm not sure where the prison poll reference came from?

MacMadame
02-13-2012, 10:13 PM
You can think spanking is wrong all you like; if you do it, you do it, regardless of your philosophical stance.
But a poll that asks have you EVER spank is going to show really high numbers because it's going to include everyone who spanked even one time. The telling stat is how many parents spank *regularly* and consider spanking a legitimate tool in their parenting arsenal. And how has that changed over time.

I don't have numbers for that but it seems like spanking was done by 95-99% of parents when I was growing up and done quite regularly and frequently and it was assumed that good parents spanked and only lazy or overly permissive parents didn't spank.

I think that's changed, but your statistics mean it hasn't changed as much as I think. :cool: Plus, I haven't seen stats for 1955-1975 which is the period I'm comparing today with, I'm only going by my own experience.

But I will say we had neighbors who spanked regularly and believed spanking was justified via their Bible readings and even they didn't spank their toddlers 3x a week!

julieann
02-13-2012, 10:53 PM
Assuming that spankings leads to incarceration is a classic post hoc fallacy; correlation is not causation.

The argument usually runs that most convicted felons were regularly spanked and are still convicted felons, ergo spanking doesn't do a whole lot to deter antisocial behaviors.

I'm not sure where the prison poll reference came from?

Who said it came from anywhere, it's just a question. Kids who got spanked end up in jail, kids who never got spanked end up in jail. Kids get into trouble, period, it's not the discipline people have trouble with it's the form it takes.

Would anyone have cared about this dad if he didn't shoot his daughter's laptop? Doubt it.


- 90 percent of parents spank their toddlers at least three times a week; two-thirds spank them once a day;

- One in four parents begin to spank when their child is 6 months old, 50 percent when their child is 12 months old

I have a hard time believing these two statistics, I wonder who was in their survey? But you know what they say 82% of all statistics are made up.

Prancer
02-14-2012, 12:45 AM
But a poll that asks have you EVER spank is going to show really high numbers because it's going to include everyone who spanked even one time. The telling stat is how many parents spank *regularly* and consider spanking a legitimate tool in their parenting arsenal. And how has that changed over time.

That number has varied quite a bit over the years, but the 65%-70% of Americans who approve of spanking has been a constant in several polls for the last decade.


I don't have numbers for that but it seems like spanking was done by 95-99% of parents when I was growing up and done quite regularly and frequently and it was assumed that good parents spanked and only lazy or overly permissive parents didn't spank.

I dunno. My parents weren't big on spanking and I don't recall my friends being spanked much, if at all, but that's hardly a representative sample.


But I will say we had neighbors who spanked regularly and believed spanking was justified via their Bible readings and even they didn't spank their toddlers 3x a week!

I do think that's pretty high and IIRC, that figure comes from a study that interpreted "spanking" very broadly to include just about any physical control/discipline. I've had a lot of students do research papers on this topic, and weekly spanking isn't at all uncommon for young kids.

However, the more educated that parents are, the less likely it is that they will spank, which is probably why you know very few people who spank. The majority of college graduates do not advocate spanking, although it's a rather small majority (I think it's 55% don't/45% do, something like that).