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Margot
02-10-2012, 07:36 AM
Several skaters have very successfully done a "Charlotte spiral". Has anyone ever tried to spin in that position? I've seen videos of rhythmic gymnasts doing several turns in that position.

Ozzisk8tr
02-10-2012, 07:56 AM
Several skaters have very successfully done a "Charlotte spiral". Has anyone ever tried to spin in that position? I've seen videos of rhythmic gymnasts doing several turns in that position.

I think centrifugal force would prohibit getting the leg to that position, but I may be wrong. I have been once before ;). How amazing would that look though.

Karpenko
02-10-2012, 08:17 AM
If it were to have been done I think Sasha would've done it. It really seems impossible, unless done as a pairs spin like M/D or I/Z. Maybe Lipnitskaya will surprise us, but honestly it seems kind of :scream: the uber flexibility required for that spin would be kind of ugly IMO.

floskate
02-10-2012, 08:18 AM
I would have thought that extreme flexibility would be needed to accomplish this. If the leg weren't totally vertical it would be almost impossible to do the spin with speed. Maybe Julia Lipnitskaya could try it.

Iceman
02-10-2012, 08:19 AM
I think one could be done by going from a biellmann positon to the charlotte positon. Mostly, a matter of lowering the head toward the ice. Not to say it wouldn't be extremely difficult. I think Alissa would be a good candidate to try it.

ballettmaus
02-10-2012, 09:37 AM
The question is if the position allows for applying what needs to be applied for a figure skating spin. Even rhythmic gymnasts do only a couple of turns in such a position. And since a Charlotte usually means that your head is against you leg and your hands are holding on to it, the leg would have be vertical in order for it to work because without arms and head you don't have any control over anything. It may be possible but I doubt it's worth the risk.

kwanatic
02-10-2012, 01:50 PM
From a physics standpoint, centrifugal force would make it extremely difficult if not impossible to maintain the vertical position while rotating that fast. In rhythmic gymnastics, they do the spin but their leg is not completely vertical and the spin only rotates once or twice, much slower than a figure skating spin.

Rochelle
02-10-2012, 02:13 PM
At the very least, Moskvina's pairs teams (and others) have done a Charlotte-like position by the lady in pairs combination spins in the late 90s, early 2000s. Ina/Zimmerman, Elena/Anton, Kazakova/Dimitriev, etc.

Perhaps someone can dig up a video -- or I can this weekend.

A Charlotte spin for a singles skater would have to happen much like an illusion spin -- without the up/down movement of the illusion... or the ever-hated "A-Frame" or "butt spin", but with the free leg extended way up. I imagine it's possible, but with a low free leg. Given the force and physics of spins, I cannot imagine getting the leg up much higher than a traditional camel spin -- regardless of how flexible a skater is. There's a reason you don't see a traditional camel spin (with no help of a hand) with an extremely high free leg performed by super flexible skaters.

iarispiralllyof
02-10-2012, 09:07 PM
i'm having trouble even envisioning it.
michelle often exited her charlotte spirals with a little spin/change of edge, but that's nothing like what you guys are describing which is a centered spin


btw before the 90's, what did the charlotte even look like? i know it was done by charlotte oenschalgel and sonja henie but from watching clips of them i can't imagine they actually did the vertical position michelle, sasha did...was the leg barely above hip level or what? i've never been able to find a picture or video of the original charlotte move

Vash01
02-10-2012, 09:21 PM
At the very least, Moskvina's pairs teams (and others) have done a Charlotte-like position by the lady in pairs combination spins in the late 90s, early 2000s. Ina/Zimmerman, Elena/Anton, Kazakova/Dimitriev, etc. Perhaps someone can dig up a video -- or I can this weekend.

.

Elena-Anton never did the Natalia spin (the one you are referring to), and although a Canadian pair had performed it before M&D, they were the first to make it popular. K&D naturally did it, since Artur was the partner and Tamara the coach. More recently a few younger pairs have done it, but no one did it better than M&D.

orbitz
02-11-2012, 01:06 AM
The extremely rare Charlotte spin (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFMwy1wWQWI).

Iceman
02-11-2012, 01:51 AM
I knew there was some way it could be done :rofl:

Sasha'sSpins
02-11-2012, 02:00 AM
Several skaters have very successfully done a "Charlotte spiral". Has anyone ever tried to spin in that position? I've seen videos of rhythmic gymnasts doing several turns in that position.

I've wondered about this too! I think it'd look cool-if done with proper stretch and speed. :cool:

OT but I think it'd be pretty cool if an artistic gymnast tried it-like the Memmel. :D

One thing I've learned from watching sports like figure skating and gymnastics for years-never say never. Anything's possible! :D


The extremely rare Charlotte spin (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFMwy1wWQWI).

I knew if anyone could do it Sasha could! :lol:

Sasha'sSpins
02-11-2012, 03:12 AM
i'm having trouble even envisioning it.
michelle often exited her charlotte spirals with a little spin/change of edge, but that's nothing like what you guys are describing which is a centered spin


btw before the 90's, what did the charlotte even look like? i know it was done by charlotte oenschalgel and sonja henie but from watching clips of them i can't imagine they actually did the vertical position michelle, sasha did...was the leg barely above hip level or what? i've never been able to find a picture or video of the original charlotte move

I could swear I've seen a photo in some figure skating book of Charlotte performing her move-but I might be confusing her with Henie. It's been years since I've seen it.

Henie performed it bending way down but not really much of a split:
Sonja Henie (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCvz0r_dKpA#t=1m34s)

OT but Sonja had excellent speed! She's flying across that ice! :eek:

orbitz
02-11-2012, 03:33 AM
Charlotte spiral (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDvAFbi-ats&feature=player_detailpage#t=207s) by Belita in the 1946 film 'Suspense'.


Cool spin combo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTSrpvXO-JY&feature=player_detailpage#t=175s) by Belita. Everything old is new again :)