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Sylvia
03-06-2012, 07:32 PM
Well then I guess it's a good thing that one of Gracie's listed coaches, Oleg Epstein, is a dance coach. :)

VarBar
03-06-2012, 09:28 PM
Well then I guess it's a good thing that one of Gracie's listed coaches, Oleg Epstein, is a dance coach. :)

Hopefully thanks to Mr. Epstein, sk8starz343 will stop cringing three times in Gracie's short program and like six or seven times in her long one in future, and also stop cringing overall coz that sounds like quite a tough fan life to live. lol Just teasing sk8starz343.

What actually bothered me the most about Gracie was that I could hardly call the programs she skated this season 'choreographies' but that's a flaw that can definitely be corrected.:)


I seriously doubt if she can do a Michelle Kwan-ish artistic turnaround in a summer

Somehow I knew somebody was going to bring Michelle in the discussion.;)

sk9tingfan
03-06-2012, 09:32 PM
Somehow I knew somebody was going to bring Michelle in the discussion.;)

And Gracie is going to have to learn to "ooze like toothpaste"! :P

aftershocks
03-06-2012, 11:43 PM
Get her "spark" on... bend her knees... make a "Kwan-like" transformation... trounce those Russians...

Oh wow, just continue to be yourself Gracie and find your own way. Breathe ... take your time, stay in the moment, and smell the flowers along the way. Above all, do not internalize the dismissiveness of "show-me" fans, or the anxiety and eagerness of hyper fans getting ahead of themselves in anticipation, me included. :P

victoriaheidi
03-07-2012, 12:03 AM
Get her "spark" on... bend her knees... make a "Kwan-like" transformation... trounce those Russians...

Oh wow, just continue to be yourself Gracie and find your own way. Breathe ... take your time, stay in the moment, and smell the flowers along the way. Above all, do not internalize the dismissiveness of "show-me" fans, or the anxiety and eagerness of hyper fans getting ahead of themselves in anticipation, me included. :P

Ok, that one's actually a matter of safety more than anything.

aftershocks
03-07-2012, 12:29 AM
Ok, that one's actually a matter of safety more than anything.

Yeah, but I think it's an exaggeration to say that Gracie does not "bend her knees." :lol: Reminds me of someone saying on youtube that Jason Brown skates with his knees bended... (as if that is a problem, as if he doesn't also have stretch and flexibility) :rofl:

Yes, Gracie has a lot to work on, much of which I'm sure she and her coaches are aware of. If she is not properly bending her knees, don't you think her coaches would have corrected it by now, or that the suspected lack of her doing so would have caught up with her by now.

Where in the below clip is there a safety problem from Gracie not bending her knees?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeVW1HvZNrk

ETA: Not sure what others are seeing... do you think she is not bending her knees deeply enough. Yes, she can work on her posture particularly in her shoulders, but I don't see where she is having a problem not bending her knees. She has very long legs and she appears very tall on the ice, but she is definitely bending her knees when she lands, and when she skates as top level skaters know is necessary to do.

dinakt
03-07-2012, 02:04 AM
I think Gracie needs to learn to perform more before she takes on powerful music. That's part of the problem I have with her current LP. When you have strong music you need to have a strong performer, otherwise the skater gets swallowed up by the music. That's what I feel happened in her LP; the music swells and gets bigger at the end, but her performance didn't match that...

Gracie has the speed and power to harness music like that but, as of now, she doesn't know how perform well enough to pull it off convincingly. I think in another year or two she should revisit "Firebird". By then she'll have grown artistically and presentation-wise (hopefully) and she'll be able to perform to the music rather than just skate through it.

I disagree- but only on strategy, not in principal. I think strong music suits Gracie best, and how else is she going to learn to project to the rafters if not by using it? Ideally, I see her as a 'Yagudin type of skater". She has lots of power, and she has a certain "Je ne sais quoi" , which holds attention. She listens to music, though does not always project it yet. Give her something strong ( I dunno... in this particular case, it does not have to be obscure either. Maybe Schumann or Grieg piano concertos, some medley of "The Planets" by Holst ( with "Mars" in the mix), "Game of Thrones" soundtrack or similar). Let her learn to deal with strong music, I think she can. Or maybe try smth. with a sense of humor and need for projection? For next year, to grow. What she could do in three, four years- who knows!

victoriaheidi
03-07-2012, 02:23 AM
Yeah, but I think it's an exaggeration to say that Gracie does not "bend her knees." :lol: Reminds me of someone saying on youtube that Jason Brown skates with his knees bended... (as if that is a problem, as if he doesn't also have stretch and flexibility) :rofl:

Yes, Gracie has a lot to work on, much of which I'm sure she and her coaches are aware of. If she is not properly bending her knees, don't you think her coaches would have corrected it by now, or that the suspected lack of her doing so would have caught up with her by now.

Where in the below clip is there a safety problem from Gracie not bending her knees?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeVW1HvZNrk

ETA: Not sure what others are seeing... do you think she is not bending her knees deeply enough. Yes, she can work on her posture particularly in her shoulders, but I don't see where she is having a problem not bending her knees. She has very long legs and she appears very tall on the ice, but she is definitely bending her knees when she lands, and when she skates as top level skaters know is necessary to do.

I personally don't notice anything. But if people see it, it does come down to a potential safety issue. It shouldn't be a question of "does she or doesn't she bend her knees?" If people have trouble seeing the bend, she may need to work on increasing the bend on her landings. I don't actually see it, though. I was just pointing out that knee bending isn't necessarily a question of improving artistry.

kwanatic
03-07-2012, 06:57 PM
Somehow I knew somebody was going to bring Michelle in the discussion.;)

Oh definitely! I'm always looking for a way to add Michelle to a conversation, but in this case I think it applies.

Michelle's transformation from 1995-1996 was pretty drastic. Looking back at her videos from 1995, her programs were well done and she skated them with spark and life and all of the technical content she needed to be the best...but she still looked like a little girl out there. Her programs in 1996 pushed her into a different space in terms of artistry and maturity...and that's what Gracie needs. Gracie needs programs that will showcase her artistry/maturity as well as her jumps. As of now her jumps are her strength but to compete with the senior level ladies, she'll need to strengthen her second mark or she'll end up with the highest TES and the lowest PCS and that will keep her off the top of the podium.

She's got plenty of time to develop a style and work on other areas of her skating...the most interesting thing will be seeing what route she takes in terms of music and choreography.

Jammers
03-07-2012, 07:39 PM
I doubt Gracie will be able to have a transformation like Michelle. MK was unique and her transformation from jumping bean to artistic has very rarely ever happened that quickly over just a few months.. But Gracie seems to want to learn and get better and she's a competitor. I like that she doesn't seem intimidated by her competitors or the competition whether it's sectionals or Worlds.

barbk
03-07-2012, 09:54 PM
If she dumps that awful techno-Nutcracker that alone will be a substantial improvement.

Jammers
03-07-2012, 11:59 PM
Yeah that Nutcracker program just reeked of being a Junior program. :lol:

dinakt
03-08-2012, 05:59 AM
I think Gracie's EX at JW is much improved over what she did at Nationals.
http://youtu.be/OOQ1RCQn0hc
I am beating the same old tired horse- but look at Gracie's movements between 0:40 and 1:05. This requires precise feel for rhythm. The girl's talented, and not just in jumps.

kwanatic
03-08-2012, 02:23 PM
I think Gracie's EX at JW is much improved over what she did at Nationals.
http://youtu.be/OOQ1RCQn0hc
I am beating the same old tired horse- but look at Gracie's movements between 0:40 and 1:05. This requires precise feel for rhythm. The girl's talented, and not just in jumps.


Gracie's EX did nothing to allay my concerns about her artistry/maturity/performance abilities. It was a "cute" program but there wasn't anything I found impressive...her jumps (sans the turnout on the 2a) were gorgeous as usual, but I'm left feeling pretty empty after watching her programs.

I'm sorry, but I can't help but be critical of Gracie; that's the downside to hype. Maybe I'm not looking hard enough, but I don't see a natural grace or elegance or innate artistic ability about Gracie...I want to see it, but all I see is jumps right now. That's not saying she can't/won't develop her other areas b/c I'm sure she will; it just makes it hard for me to get excited about her right now. Aside from the jumps, I don't get the hype...hopefully I will though.

On the flip side of that, Adelina's EX is what I love to see in an exhibition. TAT knows she can choreograph an exhibition; Adelina's "Hernando's Hideaway" is fabulous! You get a clear sense of her artistry, expression, and performance ability, plus you get a different side of her personality.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fsy8hi6bQE&feature=related

She's a very talented skater and a wonderful performer...she's just gotta get her confidence back next year.

Julia's program was marred by Morosov-esque choreography, ie. too many damn leg lifts and not enough choreography. She's a beautiful girl with a lovely presence and consistent jumps, but her "choreography" borders on annoying. I really hope she branches out next year...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9j2_zuV2Vfk&feature=related

jlai
03-08-2012, 02:35 PM
I dont understand why the emphasis of discussion is on her "artistry"
There is no such markin PCS lol
I am more concerned about GOld's basics. better basics can help skaters do more stuff and have a wider variey of style. IF not you willhaveto rely mostly on upper body movement and line and posture

Imho thatis one area top upcomers in US Ladies need to do better in to contend