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victoriaheidi
03-05-2012, 06:03 AM
I personally never saw that she was a "lock," but I did see someone say that she was a lock for a medal after the short program.

fenway2
03-05-2012, 06:05 AM
So where are the folks that said Gracie was a "LOCK" for winning JW? What happened?
If you're talking about the imaginary people in your mind, we can't see them. Only you can. Tell them hello from FSU.

Jenna
03-05-2012, 06:18 AM
So where are the folks that said Gracie was a "LOCK" for winning JW? What happened?

I don't recall anyone saying that...it was always quite clear in my mind that Julia Lipnitskaya was the odds-on favorite for gold.

Let's not diminish Gracie's achievements with silliness.

victoriaheidi
03-05-2012, 06:32 AM
I don't recall anyone saying that...it was always quite clear in my mind that Julia Lipnitskaya was the odds-on favorite for gold.

Let's not diminish Gracie's achievements with silliness.

Yeah. I thought Gracie had a chance at the podium, but my money was on Julia.

sk9tingfan
03-05-2012, 12:44 PM
Gold's JW performance was fantastic.

Her jumps were huge and her power, speed, and ice coverage were the best of the event.

I think Lipniskaya is a wonderful talent but her flexibility moves are more of a gimmick than transitions. I hope she pares them down because she is so reminiscent of Cohen.

Can't wait to see how all of these girls develop.

I thought the same about Lipnitskaia in terms of her similarity to Sasha; the flexibility, the excellent positions and musicality. What I do not like, and it may be a function of less than stellar choreography(leave it up to Morozov :( ) is to feature the flexibility whether or not it makes sense in the program; somewhat gratuitous and indulgent. Sasha's flexiblity was always very well integrated into her programs. In addition, Lipnitskaia appears to have to hold up that leg. I would be interested to see to what degree she is capable of extending the leg and holding it without support.

kwanatic
03-05-2012, 06:42 PM
I thought the same about Lipnitskaia in terms of her similarity to Sasha; the flexibility, the excellent positions and musicality. What I do not like, and it may be a function of less than stellar choreography(leave it up to Morozov :( ) is to feature the flexibility whether or not it makes sense in the program; somewhat gratuitous and indulgent. Sasha's flexiblity was always very well integrated into her programs. In addition, Lipnitskaia appears to have to hold up that leg. I would be interested to see to what degree she is capable of extending the leg and holding it without support.

ITA. This is my issue with it. Sasha's flexibility was beautiful because it was a part of the choreography and added something to the beauty of the program. To me, Julia's flexibility features don't add anything to the program because they are so randomly inserted...they're just thrown in as a "transition." Julia doesn't remind me of Sasha...at all really. I understand why people may make the comparison but I don't necessarily see it. IMO Sasha was way more polished and eye-catching...I thought Caroline Zhang was more eye-catching as junior as well, weird jumps and all. I guess it's b/c I've seen superb flexibility before so I'm not as impressed. IMO, Julia is almost too flexible...the stretch she gets is extreme but that doesn't always mean it's pretty.

I think Julia's suffering from a lack of choreography. She presents herself very well for a 13/14 year old, but her programs are her weakest point for me. I pray she finds a better choreographer...actually, this is my hope for all of the Russian ladies at this point. The newbie Russians front-load their programs too much. Not only does that leave the program one-sided but it's also just plain stupid in a system that rewards jumps later in the program. Better music choices and choreography too...that's what the Russian ladies need.

floskate
03-05-2012, 06:56 PM
ITA on Lipnitskaya's endless leg hold 'transitions' that aren't really transitions at all. They're just so up and down, no correlation to the music and spoil the surprise of those amazing spins - which are still great but could be so much more effective without the endless leg pulls.

Her programs are typical Morosov mush. I'm not sure he even listened to any music before starting it because none of it actually makes sense. She's doing endless hand flourishes and gestures which seem to have fooled a lot of fans into presuming she's more artistic than others but really, they're meaningless and just kind of add to the feeling that she's skating through the music. Literally anything could be playing at all. Only Miyahara had a free program that made any sort of cohesive sense for me out of the last group of ladies. I'm really hoping Gracie will be as good as her word and get some seriously senior programs choreographically that prove she could get PCS to match her incredible TES potential. As for the Russians ever getting decent programs to truly highlight their amazing skating - never gonna happen :fragile:

Sylvia
03-05-2012, 07:23 PM
I'm really hoping Gracie will be as good as her word and get some seriously senior programs choreographically that prove she could get PCS to match her incredible TES potential.
So what kind of music do people think would be good for Gracie's development into a more complete skater next season? She worked with choreographers Scott Brown and Pasquale Camerlengo this season.

ETA: Thanks to spiral9509 for uploading the CBC version of Gold's FS that was broadcast yesterday: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cV3CUevgUyE

floskate
03-05-2012, 07:34 PM
So what kind of music do people think would be good for Gracie's development into a more complete skater next season? She worked with choreographers Scott Brown and Pasquale Camerlengo this season.

Hmmm all depends on who is doing the choreography. She has quite a regal, pale and interesting look on the ice so something with a big orchestration that would showcase her technique and power but with enough dynamic variation and light and shade to demonstrate an ability to actually interpret music as well as challenge her performance skills. But ultimately it is the choreography and packaging that is the key. From what she said in that interview, reading between the lines it sounds as though they might already have something in the works?

kwanatic
03-05-2012, 07:47 PM
ITA Floskate. There's not much to Julia's programs aside from jumps, spins and leg lifts...I really hope that changes because she has the potential to be so much more than that. I don't find her artistry better than any of the other junior girls. IMO, Satoko Miyahara and Zijun Li were the most artistic of this competition. There were details to their programs and they looked as though they'd been choreographed to the music rather than a bunch of random movements thrown together.

I thought Gracie's LP music selection was really nice...but the delivery was completely flat. No connection to the music or movements at all. She just skated through that big swell of music at the end. That's where she needs improvement and they (her team) know it. Julia's nice to watch but her programs are rather empty IMO...standard cookie-cutter Morosov program. I love Adelina but her Libestraum program looks empty next to Mao's Libestraum (which is her best LP to date IMO). Christina Gao's programs are great but she doesn't skate them with the life and energy she needs to really capture a crowd.

As of now, none of these junior girls/up-and-comers have the total package IMO. They're all lacking something, whether it be jumps, presentation, musicality, maturity, etc. The good news is b/c they're so young, they have time. It's just going to be a matter of which skater is capable of putting it all together.

victoriaheidi
03-05-2012, 08:17 PM
So what kind of music do people think would be good for Gracie's development into a more complete skater next season? She worked with choreographers Scott Brown and Pasquale Camerlengo this season.


Don't ask why (I can't figure it out myself), but I feel like Gracie's take on Firebird could be spectacular. Also, I want to see a Harry Potter program, and Gracie may be really interesting with that. Between the main theme, some of "Harry's Wondrous World," "Fawkes the Phoenix" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ts8A43MJe4k) and some of the "Courtyard Apocalypse," she could throw together a really interesting program that would be the first with that music (that I can think of).

ETA: I suggested these two because I think she may be able to use them to improve her artistry.

Sylvia
03-05-2012, 08:25 PM
Gracie skated to "Firebird" for her Novice SP. :) This video only shows the last minute of her program from Skate Detroit in July 2009 (this may be the earliest competition video of her on youtube at the moment): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJioEuR1YFE

I agree that "Firebird" is the type of powerful music that suits her style of skating (and obviously she is a much stronger skater now than in 2009-10).

kwanatic
03-05-2012, 09:47 PM
I think Gracie needs to learn to perform more before she takes on powerful music. That's part of the problem I have with her current LP. When you have strong music you need to have a strong performer, otherwise the skater gets swallowed up by the music. That's what I feel happened in her LP; the music swells and gets bigger at the end, but her performance didn't match that...

Gracie has the speed and power to harness music like that but, as of now, she doesn't know how perform well enough to pull it off convincingly. I think in another year or two she should revisit "Firebird". By then she'll have grown artistically and presentation-wise (hopefully) and she'll be able to perform to the music rather than just skate through it.

martyross
03-05-2012, 09:53 PM
I counted them. She lifts her leg 8 times.

rhumba
03-05-2012, 10:33 PM
DO not like Gracie's SP music at all. Her LP was also blah, lots of same flailing arm movements. She is much better than her programs. She needs new choreographer. Maybe Lori Nichols can help her...I am very excited for Gracie next season!!