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Maofan7
01-30-2012, 10:35 AM
Yes, no offense, but what a stupid question

The very first post that set up the thread read:-


There has been a lot of talk about whether following U.S. Nationals, in which Flatt and Nagasu finished 6th & 7th respectively, they should now retire?

I think both Flatt and Nagasu can still be successful should they wish to continue. However, there is some hard thinking for both of them to do. Rachael needs to finally find an answer as to how she is going to balance university with skating. Her U.S. Nationals performance was a clear improvement on her grand prix skates, and I think that she can use that as a platform from which to build. Hence, things seem to be going in the right direction. As for Mirai, she has so much inherent talent, that for her to just give up would be a total waste of it. At the moment, she just seems so disenchanted. Accordingly, she needs to work out what the underlying problems are, address them, and resolve them. At the very least, I think she needs to get rid of the crazy commute.


You will note that it is my view that neither should retire. However, that does not get away from the fact that some people have been saying that they should (as evidenced by the fact that around 60% in the poll at the time of writing have voted that one or other of them should retire) and the thread was a reaction to that. That doesn't make those 60% who have voted in favour stupid. Hence the question was asked as its a reflection of what people have been saying. Nevertheless, it is my hope that the option that neither of them should retire will win out and the more people that vote for that option and set out in the thread why they should not retire to persuade others to do likewise, the more likely it is that that option will win out.


They should retire ONLY IF AND WHEN THEY WANT TO RETIRE.

Nobody has stated that either of them should be forced to retire. The question was couched of terms of whether those voting believed it was advisable for them to retire given current circumstances if they were in their shoes. The decision as to whether either skater does or doesn't retire is for them and them alone. As stated, it is my view that they shouldn't retire and that it is still possible for them to turn things around and make the 2014 Olympics.

PashaFan
01-30-2012, 11:10 AM
Hey, I'm from England & we would kill to have Rachael OR Mirai skate for us !
Do you know if they fancy coming to live in blighty for a couple of British passports?!
I could have a word with the Queen the next time I go over for afternoon tea.
Liz is skating mad & would be happy to help !

Jammers
01-30-2012, 11:51 AM
If Rachael wants to skate a couple more seasons fine by me but if she carries on like Suguri it will be even more embarrassing since Rachael at her best wasn't as good as Suguri. But Rachael's days of contending for anything are done.

roma
01-30-2012, 12:42 PM
Nope. Let them skate till they themselves want to call it quits. How many times have we seen skaters being put down because they had a couple of down seasons only to see them improve after? Mao, Caroline, Caro, Akiko to name a few...

os168
01-30-2012, 01:49 PM
Hey, I'm from England & we would kill to have Rachael OR Mirai skate for us !
Do you know if they fancy coming to live in blighty for a couple of British passports?!
I could have a word with the Queen the next time I go over for afternoon tea.
Liz is skating mad & would be happy to help !

LOL... bad idea!

I am from London too, and if we are to import anyone, I'd rather pick one of the Russian wonder babies please preferably JL (I doubt we will get to be so lucky). Although the thought of Mirai going on one of those UK university binge drinking parties did make me smile. She need to loosen up and find joy and spontaneity again some how. She has the talent, she just need to get it out there when it matters.

Rachel on the other hand has fully realized her potential already and well done her. Time to give it a rest and focus on the next chapter in her life. Stanford student life should be amazing and should demand her full attention.

olifaunt
01-30-2012, 02:20 PM
Echoing the sentiment that neither should retire UNLESS that's what they want to do. Mirai still has buckets of talent. She just needs a change, whether it's in her coaching, her choreographer, her sports psychologist, whatever it takes to make her happy. Rachael isn't coming back from a broken leg anymore and she has more experience juggling school and skating. It's obvious that she still likes the sport enough to try jamming it into her schedule. I'd be quite happy to see them both around next year.

modern_muslimah
01-30-2012, 03:07 PM
They should retire ONLY IF AND WHEN THEY WANT TO RETIRE.

^This. Why should fans have any say in when an athlete should retire?! Mirai and Rachael will leave the sport when they get good and ready to. To be honest, we shouldn't even be having this conversation.

judgejudy27
01-30-2012, 03:46 PM
You never know what happens. Figure skating especially is a sport where the most unexpected can happen.

Prior to 1999 nobody believed Butyrskaya could ever be world champion, not even after her 1998 Euros win. She was past mid-20s when she won however. Her problems as far as becoming too nervous and as a result making mistakes remind me of Czisny nowadays and Kostner the past few years. But look at Kostner now! How many times have people said Kostner should stop, yet she won Grand Prix Final and Euros this season.


Maria was a late bloomer. Her international career basically started at 23, and she gradually got better for the next 3-4 years from there. The year she won Worlds she was actually the clear 2nd favorite in a weak transitional field so in theory it shouldnt be that surprising she won. She basically just waited out long enough for almost everyone to retire/decline/slump and then happened to peak at the exact right moment.


As others have said it will be their decision what to do of course. I got the impression like many others in this thread from Rachels reaction after her very good Nationals LP that it was her finale and I will be surprised if she doesnt announce her retirement from amateur skating shortly. Wouldnt be surprised to see her do some shows on the side in coming years. Nagasu I have no idea what will do. If she retired it wouldnt surprise me, but if she continues it wouldnt either. I hope if she continues she does not continue as she was going about things this sesaon though.

olympic
01-30-2012, 04:38 PM
Maria was a late bloomer. Her international career basically started at 23, and she gradually got better for the next 3-4 years from there. The year she won Worlds she was actually the clear 2nd favorite in a weak transitional field so in theory it shouldnt be that surprising she won. She basically just waited out long enough for almost everyone to retire/decline/slump and then happened to peak at the exact right moment.


As others have said it will be their decision what to do of course. I got the impression like many others in this thread from Rachels reaction after her very good Nationals LP that it was her finale and I will be surprised if she doesnt announce her retirement from amateur skating shortly. Wouldnt be surprised to see her do some shows on the side in coming years. Nagasu I have no idea what will do. If she retired it wouldnt surprise me, but if she continues it wouldnt either. I hope if she continues she does not continue as she was going about things this sesaon though.

OT, but was Butyrskaya ever a top lady for the USSR? I don't remember her ever competing internationally prior to 1993 but due to her age, it's probable she was a respectable young Soviet teen skater on the USSR Nationals level amidst the likes of Lebedeva and Rachkova, or even in the era of Ivanova and Kondrashova in their later years ...

berthesghost
01-30-2012, 04:51 PM
She took bronze at the last soviet nationals.

A lot of her bitterness seemed to revolve around the federation dumping her as a child as "unpromising" and thus she had to support herself coming up.

AliasJohnDoe
01-30-2012, 05:09 PM
They should retire ONLY IF AND WHEN THEY WANT TO RETIRE.

^^This.

I hope any US lady skates late into her 20's if she loves the sport. Some of the best skating has come from ladies who've stayed in for years and made comebacks. Many people kept saying Czisny and Zhang should have retired. They didn't. They set goals and turned their skating around even when it looked hopeless.

I'd like to see Nagasu and Flatt stick it out for years to come. And I expect the same comeback stories for Nagasu or Flatt, even with younger talent coming up the ranks. Younger talent doesn't always work out. And the years of experience between these 2 ladies will only help them.

judgejudy27
01-30-2012, 05:11 PM
OT, but was Butyrskaya ever a top lady for the USSR? I don't remember her ever competing internationally prior to 1993 but due to her age, it's probable she was a respectable young Soviet teen skater on the USSR Nationals level amidst the likes of Lebedeva and Rachkova, or even in the era of Ivanova and Kondrashova in their later years ...

I remember at Skate Canada in late 1992 they mentioned she had been 3rd at the 1992 USSR Championships, the last ever USSR Championships. So she missed going to the Albertville Olympics for the Unified Team as an 18 year old by 2 placings. Their representative there placed in the teens somewhere though. They also mentioned she had been told to retire at 15, so she had obviously progressed alot in her late teens in the final years of the USSR to even arrive at that point.

Jammers
01-30-2012, 06:13 PM
^^This.

I hope any US lady skates late into her 20's if she loves the sport. Some of the best skating has come from ladies who've stayed in for years and made comebacks. Many people kept saying Czisny and Zhang should have retired. They didn't. They set goals and turned their skating around even when it looked hopeless.

I'd like to see Nagasu and Flatt stick it out for years to come. And I expect the same comeback stories for Nagasu or Flatt, even with younger talent coming up the ranks. Younger talent doesn't always work out. And the years of experience between these 2 ladies will only help them.
Flatt has peaked and isn't going to be a champion. If she ever does win Nats again then the US will have hit a all time low.

judgejudy27
01-30-2012, 06:20 PM
Flatt has peaked and isn't going to be a champion. If she ever does win Nats again then the US will have hit a all time low.

A hypothetical future comeback success for Flatt would not be winning Nationals, but winning the pewter medal someday ala Zhang this year. Also like Zhang this year that would probably be the height of the comeback story, as it would likely be mid quad like this year before a new batch of juniors makes the push for the Olympics.

minignome
01-30-2012, 06:33 PM
The decision for them to continue to skate should be made by them with input from their parents & coaches. Only they can decide if the joy they get from it is worth the sacrifices.