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View Full Version : The irrepressible, exasperating Mirai Nagasu, part II



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smarts1
02-02-2012, 11:37 PM
I think she still *might* be chosen for WTT this year, unless Ashley can pull up her World Ranking substantially with 4CCs and Worlds (Skaters for WTT are chosen by their World Standing and not their season's best right?)

chipso1
02-02-2012, 11:54 PM
I think she still *might* be chosen for WTT this year, unless Ashley can pull up her World Ranking substantially with 4CCs and Worlds (Skaters for WTT are chosen by their World Standing and not their season's best right?)

Right, but Ashley's not the third ranked American behind Mirai right now either. As of today, the U.S. ladies are ranked:

#6 Alissa CZISNY (3,087 points)
#8 Mirai NAGASU (2,817)
#13 Rachael FLATT (2,347)
#23 Agnes ZAWADZKI (1,652)
#25 Caroline ZHANG (1,513)
#26 Christina GAO (1,443)
#29 Ashley WAGNER (1,348)

Even if Ashley wins Worlds, she'd receive 1,200 points which would still put her behind Mirai. Now, when the ISU wipes the 2009/10 points out, things will probably change, but that won't happen until after the WTT.

So, it looks like Mirai still has a good shot at competing in Japan at the WTT this spring. Actually, the only person on that list who can statistically overtake her is Rachael, who won't be competing at 4CC unless Ashley, Agnes or Caroline w/d.

smarts1
02-03-2012, 12:05 AM
WTF how is Caroline ahead of Ashley? World standings always confuse me.....

Anywho is it cumulative World standings that are used or this season's world standings that are used in determining who is inivted to WTT?

Sylvia
02-03-2012, 12:12 AM
Anywho is it cumulative World standings that are used or this season's world standings that are used in determining who is inivted to WTT?
I just bumped up the 2012 World Team Trophy thread in GSD - maybe we can discuss this question over there: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?p=3467228#post3467228

smarts1
02-03-2012, 12:14 AM
^ Well how did they choose in the past?

Anyways, have there been any post-Nationals interviews with Mirai and Frank?

chipso1
02-03-2012, 12:16 AM
WTF how is Caroline ahead of Ashley? World standings always confuse me.....

The last time Ashley had ISU Championship points (Worlds, Jr. Worlds, 4CC, or Olympics) was 2008/09, and those were wiped out after last season. She is the only skater currently in the top 40 to have no ISU Championship points from 2009-now, although that will soon change.

Caroline has 476 ISU Championship points from her 2010 4CC bronze medal. After this season, however, they will go away.

chipso1
02-03-2012, 12:17 AM
^ Well how did they choose in the past?

The "Season World Ranking" did not exist at the time of the last WTT.

smarts1
02-03-2012, 12:28 AM
Oh yeah, it didn't...

Anita18
02-03-2012, 01:49 AM
I think the two go hand in hand. In one of the articles frank basically says she has to work harder, and she loses the big picture because she obsesses over trivial matters. This is followed up by a quote from mirai that basically says Her mom tells her to work harder and improve on some things and then she goes and obsesses over the little criticism and loses the bigger picture. Then she goes to nats and practices well but tanks the comp because she's thinking too much and not relying on the muscle memory she'd have if she trained harder. She misses jumps and then says it was because she was thinking too much about her facial expressions. It's a vicious cycle.
Even the non-skating Asian friends I have eventually learn to shut off the part of their brain that listens to their tiger parents by 18. :o

I had parents who made me tape-record my piano playing and listen to it when I was 10. Eventually they laid off me and I learned to have high standards for myself. I also had to make the choice of practicing deliberately. Not for anyone else. But for myself. Your coach or your mother can't always tell you what you need to work on - YOU have to know what you need to work on, and your coach can take you there. I mean, when you're young and don't know anything about skating, they can do that, but when you're at this level....

It just seems to me that Mirai needs to own her skating career more. Even I was incredulous at the "I was thinking too hard about my facial expressions" excuse after the LP. If she had been practicing deliberately instead of relying on muscle memory, it really shouldn't have been an issue. You can't phone it in in practice and expect to somehow find the emotion in competition.

Sasha'sSpins
02-03-2012, 09:00 AM
I think she still *might* be chosen for WTT this year, unless Ashley can pull up her World Ranking substantially with 4CCs and Worlds (Skaters for WTT are chosen by their World Standing and not their season's best right?)

It's late for me here-what's WTT? :confused:

falling_dance
02-03-2012, 09:01 AM
It's late for me here-what's WTT? :confused:

World Team Trophy.

Sasha'sSpins
02-03-2012, 09:04 AM
World Team Trophy.

Thanks! I had forgotten about that competition! :D

Now to bed. Good night all. :coffee:

bek
02-03-2012, 05:46 PM
I think the two go hand in hand. In one of the articles frank basically says she has to work harder, and she loses the big picture because she obsesses over trivial matters. This is followed up by a quote from mirai that basically says Her mom tells her to work harder and improve on some things and then she goes and obsesses over the little criticism and loses the bigger picture. Then she goes to nats and practices well but tanks the comp because she's thinking too much and not relying on the muscle memory she'd have if she trained harder. She misses jumps and then says it was because she was thinking too much about her facial expressions. It's a vicious cycle.

This. I remember Frank said last year that in the few weeks leading to Nationals Mirai then would get it together. The cramming may work very well for Nationals practice but not necessarily when the pressure is on. Of course Mirai should be able to do those jumps pretty easily under the low pressure of practice; she's been doing those jumps for years.

The only reason I believe that Mirai has work issues is because Frank and Nagasu have both admitted that Nagasu has work issues. To me if the skater and the coach admit that its the case than I'm not sure why fans feel the need to come up with something different or another excuse.

And as for Mirai's music; whose to say that Mirai had nothing to do with what her music choices. I've actually heard that for at least one of the programs (the short) the exact opposite is the case.

If Mirai's issues were just mental; I don't think Frank or Lori would be looking like they wanted to throttle her after her skate. I don't remember Frank looking like he wanted to throttle Bebe, and she was very inconsistent. He didn't look like he wanted to throttle Denis Ten last year; when Denis was struggling.

The thing is that the discipline and effort it takes to be a major champion is ridiculous. I remember reading about how much practice Yu-na put into becoming an Olympic Champ; Rafael has talked about how hard Mao Asada use to practice. Not everyone has that kind of focus; and I think that's perfectly fine.

But if the skater doesn't have that kind of focus; its on the skater. Not the coaches, not the choreographer etc. I don't think blaming Frank or Lori is really fair. If Mirai is unhappy with her coach; nothing is stopping her from getting another one; and same goes with her choreographer. Lori's stuff is a bit overdone but skaters also tend to change choreography; and she has proven with Kostner that she's more than capable of doing great programs still.

Mirai is a lovely girl and not having Kim/Asada like focus doesn't change that. But it does mean the results are on her.

Jammers
02-03-2012, 05:50 PM
Exactly. I have never gotten the feeling that Mirai wants it as bad as some of those other skaters like Mao or Kim. But the big thing is she needs to grow up. In just a couple months she will be 19. She should be hitting her peak and setting herself up for Sochi not going backwards. I think all Frank asks of his skaters is to work hard and listen to and do what he says. That's not asking a lot if you ask me.

bek
02-03-2012, 05:56 PM
Exactly. I have never gotten the feeling that Mirai wants it as bad as some of those other skaters like Mao or Kim. But the big thing is she needs to grow up. In just a couple months she will be 19. She should be hitting her peak and setting herself up for Sochi not going backwards. I think all Frank asks of his skaters is to work hard and listen to and do what he says. That's not asking a lot if you ask me.

I don't want Nagasu to retire because I think she is a lovely skater. And its not for me to judge. But a part of me thinks if her family is really struggling financially like people are saying; than she needs to either decide she's "all in" or perhaps do something else. It may be difficult for her to do that though since her family already sacrificed so much; I don't envy her there. All in doesn't necessarily mean staying with Frank though. The current training situation is clearly not working, but somehow I have a feeling that while many coaches may have a different methods. I just have a hard time thinking most coaches disagree on the amount of work ethic it requires to be a champion.