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View Full Version : Virtue - Moir #14 V&M - The Future's so Bright, I Gotta wear Shades



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Bournekraatzfan
01-30-2012, 09:53 PM
They have two very good programs. They're great programs. We've yet to see a clean performance of the new short. If anything, from my very biased opinion, the problem lies in what Tracy observed - VM aren't getting enough credit in the scoring for their skill and difficulty. They got credit for it in 2009-2010 and 2010-2011. How were they or Marina/Igor supposed to predict that would possibly change and the judges would go more for in-your-face?


This is what I was trying to get at in the previous thread. I really do think they were given great material this year (I am referring to the original programs...though the revised FD is great, I still feel like they need to revert back to the old SD as this layout seems problematic). I also believe they are skating their FD beautifully. I honestly don't think that Marina and Igor anticipated that the qualities that set V&M apart would not be duly appreciated. The fall in the SD at the GPF just reminds me of how difficult it is to do what Tessa and Scott do. Skating so close together makes everything more difficult. It is only because they have really strong cores, incredible balance and complete mastery over their edges that they are able to make everything look so polished and effortless while traveling at great speed.

I also think that articulation of rhythm is underappreciated, and no one does this like V&M, imo. I love how they respond to both the beat and the melody and are able to convey not only a theme but those variations in rhythm and tempo. That is why I cannot understand how anyone can say that they are only proficient in one style. I happen to love D&W and their interpretation of Die Fledermaus, but I really do think that Funny Face is also masterpiece and it is my favourite FD this season. I have never seen Tessa look more radiant. and if this is V&M's last competitive season, I am at least happy to see them go out with a bang.

Golightly
01-30-2012, 09:57 PM
If all depend fom music choice for top two teams, i hope T-S understand, that its only one time D-W could use waltz and gallop FD so why they couldnt choose soemthing loud, people friendly for next season? And if they had all stading ovations in Moscow, they wil have the same reation, like it was in Vancouver in London :)

Apart from last season, when have Tessa and Scott chosen audience-friendly music for a FD in their senior career? When?

In fact, that speaks volumes. They can skate to anything. Even now, when the music seems to be a problem because some people, including yourself, don't like it, they prove that they can transport an audience and make you care about a program, even when you just don't buy the music. To me, that has more value than taking the friendliest of rhythms and galloping around the ice.

pani
01-30-2012, 09:58 PM
I think she was shine in Finlandia the most :)
I notice one interesting thing - people, who like D-W and V-M and maybe dont care who will win, all time try to beZueva-Shpilband advocats :)))))))))))

pani
01-30-2012, 10:00 PM
Apart from last season, when have Tessa and Scott chosen audience-friendly music for a FD in their senior career? When?

Do you thins Sibelius, UofSh wasnt audience-friendly?
If D-W FD will win only because of the music, T-S could made the same next season :)

Golightly
01-30-2012, 10:09 PM
Do you thins Sibelius, UofSh wasnt audience-friendly?
If D-W FD will win only because of the music, T-S could made the same next season :)

Valse Triste? Really? That's tough to sell in ice dance, my friend, and if you think that's audience-friendly, wow, where's that audience and how do I get there? The constant criticism these programs got was that the music was boring. In fact, it's usually what their detractors say: "Oh, they're so boring". So, no, I don't feel Valse Triste, Umbrellas, Mahler, etc. were audience-friendly and thank god for that. They went out there and made us fall in love with those programs. What is there to sell when you use a waltz people can clap to for four minutes non-stop?

pani
01-30-2012, 10:13 PM
What is there to sell when you use a waltz people can clap to for four minutes non-stop?

But this give you golds every competitions :lol:
When T-S one time used "not boring" music you need to see audience reaction. :) When its very close competition, this little things will give you soem more points.
And i always thought - the coal isnt to choose audience NON-friendly music, but ebven ith overused music to show really innovated choreo ;)

Bournekraatzfan
01-30-2012, 10:15 PM
I think she was shine in Finlandia the most :)
I notice one interesting thing - people, who like D-W and V-M and maybe dont care who will win, all time try to beZueva-Shpilband advocats :)))))))))))

Just to clarify, I love both teams, think they are both supremely talented and will be happy for either one. However, I do prefer V&M and think they are the superior team and thus would like to see them win if they skate clean.

Subway
01-30-2012, 10:27 PM
I think she was shine in Finlandia the most :)
I notice one interesting thing - people, who like D-W and V-M and maybe dont care who will win, all time try to beZueva-Shpilband advocats :)))))))))))

Look again.

Golightly
01-30-2012, 10:37 PM
But this give you golds every competitions :lol:
When T-S one time used "not boring" music you need to see audience reaction. :) When its very close competition, this little things will give you soem more points.

Using that logic, they should have won last year, Pani, and that didn't happen. The audience can clap all they want, but if you missed an edge, you missed an edge.

I agree that music matters. I've said it before: music is very important, but the audience loving your music should not determine whether you win or not. Is that what you want them to do? If the audience claps more for V-M than they do D-W, then they should win? Honestly?

Shayii
01-30-2012, 11:12 PM
This is so exhausting, what happened to the positive energy twinktwink was talking about? What will happen if Tessa and Scott actually DO win at 4CC and worlds? Are we all gonna take back everything we've said lol. Well I'm taking a cue from Scott, I don't care about the marks anymore. As long as they have amazing skates that they're happy with is enough for me (it will still hurt a little if they lose of course). And if they come in second I really really hope that will just motivate them to continue and that they wouldn't retire...they don't seem like the type of people that give up easily.

Bournekraatzfan
01-31-2012, 12:24 AM
This is so exhausting, what happened to the positive energy twinktwink was talking about? What will happen if Tessa and Scott actually DO win at 4CC and worlds? Are we all gonna take back everything we've said lol. Well I'm taking a cue from Scott, I don't care about the marks anymore. As long as they have amazing skates that they're happy with is enough for me (it will still hurt a little if they lose of course). And if they come in second I really really hope that will just motivate them to continue and that they wouldn't retire...they don't seem like the type of people that give up easily.

this

Bournekraatzfan
01-31-2012, 12:37 AM
Sorry, still catching up on your posts (so great to see so much activity in this thread--so many interesting thoughts!). I have wanted them to do blues for a while now because I know they can really do it justice. I actually like "Blues for Klook," but would prefer to see them use something a little more obscure...hmmm...maybe something from the Harlem Renaissance? One thing I want to say in response to an earlier post: while I love Katia Gordeeva (she is one of my all-time favourite skaters), I do not wish to see Tessa channel her. I want Tessa to be Tessa. I have never seen a more beautiful skater and she has all the sensuality and feeling to create a soulful blues program with Scott.

m_chenning
01-31-2012, 02:10 AM
Calling Dean choreography 80-sh and maybe old-fashion is a new trend? Am I missing something? :confused: I understand why Piper an Paul have well-scored FD. Every beat of music, every move are so clever constructed and fits to the dance. And it has exclusive, brand new look, even if it is Christopher "look". For me Torvill and Dean are still doing amazing things in show. All that lifts and culture of skating in general- simply wonderful. I wish Tessa and Scott could work with Dean. I think such amazing ice-dancer and legend can give something special to everybody. But with T-S class it could be something interesting and innovative.

Anyway, it's very interesting how T-S could look in other hands. It's chace to learn something new, to "open new horizons" if you know what I mean.

But is it the target for T-S or they prefer stagnation in some kind of way? I don't know. I wish them the best and I wish them to enjoy skating as much and so long as they want.

bbkenn
01-31-2012, 03:05 AM
Who says the problem is their programs? Funny Face is undefeated. Everybody just leaps over other possibilities. Judges have gone speed-crazy before - or for apparent speed because I think Scott and Tessa are just about as fast and shouldn't be penalized for their ability to master different tempos.

Scott and Tessa were rewarded for what they did during the Olympic season and came close to pulling it off at the last Worlds even though it was their first full competition and Tessa was out of gas by the end. Until this year they never got any idea that ice dance judging was going to act like D/W were the second coming of ice dance. If there's a problem it's not with Scott and Tessa's programs but less-than-critical judging of D/W's skating. Charlie had a twizzle issue in the fd and you'd never know it by the scoring at Nationals. How would changing environments change how the judges score D/W?

They have two very good programs. They're great programs. We've yet to see a clean performance of the new short. If anything, from my very biased opinion, the problem lies in what Tracy observed - VM aren't getting enough credit in the scoring for their skill and difficulty. They got credit for it in 2009-2010 and 2010-2011. How were they or Marina/Igor supposed to predict that would possibly change and the judges would go more for in-your-face?

I think ice dance judging is more or less honest in theory. I don't have great faith in judges as people. I believe so muchsubjectivity goes into it that isn't acknowledged. D/W is an easy call. It's like Grishok & Platov whipping around in a frenzy on the ice. Ironically, Virtue and Moir are extremely fast, if not possibly faster than D/W, but it's not flaunted.

When did FF become a bad idea? It's beaten Strauss. We don't know about the short because Tessa and Scott haven't yet laid it down. For me, it's like a lot of people never cared for ballroom dancing or Scott and Tessa's style so they're using this situation as a pretext hoping to influence Scott and Tessa to skate another style, as they've wanted them to for years. They never seem to consider Scott and Tessa in these posts.

This^^ Thanks. I wish people would stop being so defeatest in their attitude. I disagree that if they don't win gold at Worlds they will retire. I think they will go back to the drawing boards and go after it again. As for D&W is VERY hard to be 4 time world champion now and then automatically be olympic champion, so I don't think it will be as easy for them, as some people seem to think. It's a long way to Sochi, and right now, I still think it's up for grabs for 4CC or Worlds.

zilam98
01-31-2012, 03:38 AM
lots of negativity and hysteria are what you get when people ask pani to come back ;)