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Really
01-29-2012, 03:37 PM
Exactly. What is disturbing, is that this is still just an accusation, not a formal charge, this is supposed to be confidential until there is a formal charge. I think whoever leaked Kelly's name should be taken to task.Like the possibility in this case (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/27/sports/ncaafootball/at-yale-the-collapse-of-a-rhodes-scholar-candidacy.html?_r=1&ref=ncaafootball)? Joe Scarborough was livid when he was talking about this on "Morning Joe" the other day (Thursday or Friday morning, I can't remember). He was more incensed at the NYTimes publishing this story in the absence of any solid evidence...
Witt’s accuser has not gone to the police, nor filed what Yale considers a formal complaint. The New York Times has not spoken with her and does not know her name.The NYTimes isn't the only organization at fault here; the Rhodes Trust and Yale area also at fault.

I have absolutely no sympathy for any man found guilty of any form of sexual assault. I do have sympathy for those whose lives have been ruined by false accusations. In the case of this young football player, if nothing comes of the alleged accusations, the damage has already been done. That is sad.

cruisin
01-29-2012, 04:00 PM
^^ I knew about this young man and the Rhodes/Yale football game decision. I was unaware of the sexual assault allegations. Wow, that's awful.

Really
01-29-2012, 04:29 PM
"Reliable Sources" on CNN is just about to do a story on Witt's case and NYTimes article, along with something about the story that started this thread.

julieann
01-29-2012, 06:37 PM
And I am absolutely appalled that so many people here jumped immediately to the conclusion that she made it up. I'm not saying that's not a possibility, but there are so many times when I see this reaction. I've seen it about those friends mentioned before. It's disgusting. No means no, no matter what the situation is.

The 'public' has a right to be skeptical especially because it's happened before (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_lacrosse_case), many times. An accusation like hers until proven can be devastating to whoever was accused even if found she lied. The stigma will never go away. So excuse me for wanting a few answers before I crucify the man.

Also I can easily turn your words around on you.

I am absolutely appalled that you jumped immediately to the conclusion that he did it.

Until all the facts come out, I'm going to go with innocent until proven otherwise.

cruisin
01-29-2012, 06:55 PM
And I am absolutely appalled that so many people here jumped immediately to the conclusion that she made it up. I'm not saying that's not a possibility, but there are so many times when I see this reaction. I've seen it about those friends mentioned before. It's disgusting. No means no, no matter what the situation is. And Karina, the 'she was asking for it' attitude is beyond awful, not that I'm terribly surprised that that's your attitude.

No one "asks for it". No one should ever be forced to have sexual relations. But, this situation just doesn't sound right. Every situation needs to be evaluated individually. Just because people don't believe this woman, it doesn't mean that they don't usually believe it if a woman claims to have been assaulted. My biggest "red flag" on this case is the fact that she didn't report it as assault until her boyfriend found the texts and she got caught. So, for me that would imply that she was trying to cover her butt. I also wonder why a person who was sexually assaulted would contact the assaulter and ask them why they are not calling them. Something smells bad with this. And this should never have become public unless and until there were formal charges, which there are not.

Vagabond
01-29-2012, 06:59 PM
I don't 'date.'

I can see why.

Matryeshka
01-30-2012, 03:10 AM
I disagree. You are the one who doesn't "get it."

Obviously you weren't raised to think about the consequences of your actions BEFORE commencing said actions, such as putting onesself, as this woman did, in a situation that that could well turn out to be compromising for her - going out for drinks with a man she didn't even know beforehand, and then going someplace private when she didn't have the slightest clue whether or not she should be putting her trust in him.


Almost ALL first dates involve going out with a man you don't know that well beforehand. Most of us do not date the boys we've known 10+ years. And I don't know how it is where you live, but here, most first dates involve either going to get coffee or going out for drinks. And are you seriously telling me that never in the history of your dating career, you've never, ever invited a guy back to your place maybe a little earlier than dating wisdom says you should have? I have. Most of us have. Most of the time it does not end in violence, but if it does, it's not the victim's fault. You don't get to blame the victim so you yourself can feel safer.

But besides all that, whatever her errors in judgement were, it doesn't excuse his behavior. .Rape is not a crime of passion. It is not "I got so turned on I couldn't stop." Rape is about violence and power over someone you perceive to be weaker.

You don't have sex without the other person's consent. That's the law. If you break that law, it's called rape. It's very simple. Anything else is just smoke and mirrors.

BigB08822
01-30-2012, 03:59 AM
I still think this is a case of regret and I doubt charges are ever brought against him. Unfortunately people will probably blame his father's connections as the reason and he will have his name forever tarnished. Who continues to flirt with their rapist? She doesn't even remember much of the night but that does NOT mean she was passed out. She may have been initiating everything and she just has no memory of it or a very fuzzy memory. That is not rape, that is called regret.

WindSpirit
01-30-2012, 04:21 AM
Obviously you weren't raised to [...] You're being tacky, to say the least.


In addition, whatever conversation and interacting they were doing could have been done right there at the bar where they were having the drinks - in public and in plain sight of whoever else was in the establishment. There's only one type of interaction between two people that "has to" (decency laws and all) be done in private, and that's of the sexual kind. Which leads me to believe that this encounter was more consensual than she is letting on. I think you're the one who doesn't get it, after all.

Even if a person invites another to their house alone with the intention to have sex but changes her/his mind anytime and the guest does not honor it, it's still going to be rape.

It doesn't matter why the guest was invited to the house, whether they were alone, what his/her expectations were, or even that initially the person who invited them agreed to have sex. If someone wants another person to stop, they need to stop. No means no. And the initial yes is not a contract.

If you initially wanted to have sex with someone, but they started to act weird and you changed your mind, do you have to go through with it? Maybe they started hurting you? Do you have to suffer through it? What if you agreed to make out and fool around without having an intercourse but they tried to make you have one anyway? Is your no less valid then? What do you think a date rape is? Can a prostitute be raped? A wife?

All that "What was she expecting would happen?" accusatory tone is vile.

I agree that one should take precautions to not put themselves in the harm's way, it's common sense, but nothing should undermine everyone's right to say no.

Having said that, in this particular story, I'll withhold my judgement until there's more information. I'm not particularly buying the woman's account, but I'm far from blaming her. If she's lying, I hope she will get punished. Fake rape accusations are as damaging and despicable as the rape itself. To the person falsely accused and to the real rape victims.

cruisin
01-30-2012, 02:15 PM
Even if a person invites another to their house alone with the intention to have sex but changes her/his mind anytime and the guest does not honor it, it's still going to be rape.

I agree with you. But in this case it was not home. She brought him to her office, because her boyfriend was home. I have to wonder what she planned to do in her office, with a man she had had several drinks with. I mean, there was no let's have coffee, let's have a drink, let's watch a TV movie, let's sit on a sofa and talk. And, as I already said: why did she wait until she got caught, to report it? Why did she continue to txt him afterward?


Having said that, in this particular story, I'll withhold my judgement until there's more information. I'm not particularly buying the woman's account, but I'm far from blaming her. If she's lying, I hope she will get punished. Fake rape accusations are as damaging and despicable as the rape itself. To the person falsely accused and to the real rape victims.

Completely agree. Especially the bolded.

Aceon6
01-30-2012, 03:44 PM
Having said that, in this particular story, I'll withhold my judgement until there's more information. I'm not particularly buying the woman's account, but I'm far from blaming her. If she's lying, I hope she will get punished. Fake rape accusations are as damaging and despicable as the rape itself. To the person falsely accused and to the real rape victims.

^This. A teacher at the local middle school was falsely accused of having a sexual relationship with a student in 2008. He was completely cleared in 2010, but by then his life was ruined. Because he was suspended without pay, he lost his house.

Turns out the girl was having a sexual relationship with a boy in her class and contracted a STD. Instead of getting the boy in trouble, she said the teacher did it.

Beefcake
01-30-2012, 05:03 PM
Having said that, in this particular story, I'll withhold my judgement until there's more information. I'm not particularly buying the woman's account, but I'm far from blaming her. If she's lying, I hope she will get punished. Fake rape accusations are as damaging and despicable as the rape itself. To the person falsely accused and to the real rape victims.
Yes. The more I read (even if only 1/2 of the things reported "out there" are accurate), the more I am convinced she is lying for self-serving/cover-up purposes. I'm now mostly withdrawing my "she may have had post-coital drinking binge blackout and incorrectly filled in the blanks" pass.

If so, it's engraging because she has demolished a man's career and reputation. Some here and elsewhere will continue to call him a "rapist" versus "accused/wrongly accused/exhonerated" and continue to call this a "rape" versus "accused/wrongly accused rape" even is he is declared emphatically "innocent", ala the Duke lacrosse players. That's wrong.

And - yes - it's enraging because every false accusation chips away at the credibility and public perception of true date/spousal rapes.

I truly do feel women's POV when it comes to rape, the right to say "no" at any point of an encounter, and the law's/society's problem with making a woman prove it. But, I think this case is not the one to get behind.

Anita18
01-30-2012, 06:14 PM
If you initially wanted to have sex with someone, but they started to act weird and you changed your mind, do you have to go through with it? Maybe they started hurting you? Do you have to suffer through it? What if you agreed to make out and fool around without having an intercourse but they tried to make you have one anyway? Is your no less valid then? What do you think a date rape is? Can a prostitute be raped? A wife?

All that "What was she expecting would happen?" accusatory tone is vile.

I agree that one should take precautions to not put themselves in the harm's way, it's common sense, but nothing should undermine everyone's right to say no.

Having said that, in this particular story, I'll withhold my judgement until there's more information. I'm not particularly buying the woman's account, but I'm far from blaming her. If she's lying, I hope she will get punished. Fake rape accusations are as damaging and despicable as the rape itself. To the person falsely accused and to the real rape victims.
Agree on all counts.

I've had times myself where I'm in the mood but then don't feel up to it anymore, and I feel very very grateful when I tell my bf I have to stop and he gladly obliges. He finds no pleasure when I'm not having fun. I find it sad that many women don't have that.

And yes, fake rape accusations make me :mad:. Way to take rape seriously.

michiruwater
01-31-2012, 01:33 AM
I agree with you. But in this case it was not home. She brought him to her office, because her boyfriend was home. I have to wonder what she planned to do in her office, with a man she had had several drinks with.

IT STILL DOESN'T MATTER. The location DOESN'T MATTER. Yes, she probably brought him up to her office with the idea of having sex. That's a logical conclusion, because wtf else were they about to do there?

However, if she changed her mind, and he forced her, it's still rape. If he began to hurt her, or acted weird, and she told him to stop, and he didn't, it's still rape.

Consent can be withdrawn no matter the location. Once it is, all actions must cease, or it is rape.

And this doesn't pertain just to this story, but to all rape situations that have ever occurred. Just because a woman wants to have sex with someone in one moment does not mean she cannot change her mind in the future, and if she changes her mind then he shouldn't force her to have sex. Period.

milanessa
01-31-2012, 02:08 AM
However, if she changed her mind, and he forced her, it's still rape. If he began to hurt her, or acted weird, and she told him to stop, and he didn't, it's still rape.


Is this what happened?