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oleada
01-27-2012, 02:42 PM
I disagree. You are the one who doesn't "get it."

Obviously you weren't raised to think about the consequences of your actions BEFORE commencing said actions, such as putting onesself, as this woman did, in a situation that that could well turn out to be compromising for her - going out for drinks with a man she didn't even know beforehand, and then going someplace private when she didn't have the slightest clue whether or not she should be putting her trust in him.


So, that makes it okay if she says no, and he has sex with her anyway? I didn't know that consenting to go to someone's place meant consenting to having sex! I bet you think that a woman is just asking for it if she wears a short skirt at night, too.

Even if she consents to vaginal sex, and he performs anal intercourse, for example, that's still rape.

GarrAarghHrumph
01-27-2012, 03:22 PM
Whether or not this is true, sources have been published saying that the woman met Greg on a street, and they spoke. They got each other's contact info, and separated. They decided to meet up for drinks another night, after texting each other for a little bit. The night they met for drinks is the one where the incident occurred. Not the first night they met.

The local radio news here reported that the woman said that she was unable to consent - that she was too drunk to consent. That she may have invited him back to her office for the reasons people suspect, but in the end, she changed her mind. However, the woman has said (again, according to "sources") that she was so intoxicated, that she doesn't remember some things from that night.

Witnesses who saw her leaving the building say she did not look upset - although that doesn't necessarily mean anything.

Sources also say that Greg has a series of text messages that the woman had sent him after their encounter in the office, which the source claims were "flirtatious." Greg has given those text messages to the DA's office.

The Post reports that the DA's office does not think her story is genuine:
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/da_office_doubts_kelly_rape_claim_0swNrxJIc0zntcz1 chYIKJ

The Post is not always a reliable newspaper.

Again, all of this is according to "sources", which may or may not be reliable.

Badams
01-27-2012, 03:28 PM
Obviously you weren't raised to think about the consequences of your actions BEFORE commencing said actions, such as putting onesself, as this woman did, in a situation that that could well turn out to be compromising for her - going out for drinks with a man she didn't even know beforehand, and then going someplace private when she didn't have the slightest clue whether or not she should be putting her trust in him.



Really? You know that from one post that Civic made on FSU? You're amazing...:blah:

taf2002
01-27-2012, 03:34 PM
The point is no one knows the truths right now. I'm definitely not going to automatically believe anyone who claims to be raped 3 months after the supposed fact.

Someone in my family didn't tell for 24 YEARS. It happened in college in the parking lot. She suppressed it until her daughter started sending out college applications which brought back the memories & she finally got counseling.

Men don't rape because there's a convenient opportunity, like being alone in an office or because the woman doesn't know them well. When you go on a blind date, you are basically with a stranger. You hope whoever set you up had good judgement but you don't know that.

Civic
01-27-2012, 08:47 PM
...Obviously you weren't raised to think about the consequences of your actions BEFORE commencing said actions, such as putting onesself, as this woman did, in a situation that that could well turn out to be compromising for her - going out for drinks with a man she didn't even know beforehand, and then going someplace private when she didn't have the slightest clue whether or not she should be putting her trust in him...
:rolleyes:And you're obviously one of those women who believe that if you jump all over someone who claims she was raped by dissecting and criticizing her every move then you'll never be raped yourself.

Cheylana
01-27-2012, 09:19 PM
There are so many reasons rape victims could have waited for so long. Rape is extremely traumatic event. There's tons of self-blame and denial going on. It's also very difficult for some victims to able to tell their story after it happens.
Yup, exactly; I think we are in complete agreement here.

Karina1974
01-27-2012, 09:53 PM
:rolleyes:And you're obviously one of those women who believe that if you jump all over someone who claims she was raped by dissecting and criticizing her every move then you'll never be raped yourself.

No, but I will tell you one thing, I would not consider for one second doing what she did - going out for drinks and then going someplace private with someone I don't know well enough to know that said person has the self-control enough to be able to keep my welfare in mind, above and beyond whatever he may have in mind. The only time I have done the drinks-and-then-someplace-private was when I'd known the guy for well over a year, and what ended up happening was completely consensual on both sides.

I also have no problem with letting people know where I draw the line about how close I let people get to me. There was a minor fire across the street from my apartment 2 weeks ago, and while I was outside watching it (at 1:30/2:00 AM) I was conversing with a guy who lives 2 streets west of me. During the course of the conversation he said something to the point of us "maybe going out sometime." I turned right around on him and said firmly - "2 things. #1 - I don't 'date.' #2 - I don't 'drink.' And if you ever come around ringing my doorbell unannounced, you WILL be dealt with accordingly, because I don't allow that privilege to anyone who isn't a blood relative." And mind you, there's cops standing around as I'm saying this (and the fact that my building's super is a Troy City cop had already come up in the conversation) . Didn't stop the conversation, but it did set him back a bit, and he didn't mention it again.

agalisgv
01-27-2012, 10:02 PM
I was conversing with a guy who lives 2 streets west of me. During the course of the conversation he said something to the point of us "maybe going out sometime." I turned right around on him and said firmly - "2 things. #1 - I don't 'date.' #2 - I don't 'drink.' And if you ever come around ringing my doorbell unannounced, you WILL be dealt with accordingly, because I don't allow that privilege to anyone who isn't a blood relative." Um, why would you say/do that? You could just say (if an when he actually asked you out), "Thanks, but I'd like to just be friends."

Easy, and no drama. Also, sometimes friends go out with each other too (non-romantically that is). Just because two people go out for coffee doesn't mean there's a romantic relationship in the mix.

Not everything has to be a pull the switchblade moment....

michiruwater
01-27-2012, 10:08 PM
There are plenty of women who don't report rape at all, and I've known several personally whom have waited 3-8 months (the longest I can think of) to report it because of the mixture of denial, shame, guilt, and 'wanting to be strong enough to get through it on their own.'

That she waited 3 months doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

And I am absolutely appalled that so many people here jumped immediately to the conclusion that she made it up. I'm not saying that's not a possibility, but there are so many times when I see this reaction. I've seen it about those friends mentioned before. It's disgusting. No means no, no matter what the situation is. And Karina, the 'she was asking for it' attitude is beyond awful, not that I'm terribly surprised that that's your attitude.

Beefcake
01-27-2012, 10:13 PM
You sound delightful, Karina.

But, anyway, obviously there is a lot we all don't know, nor will ever know.

Rape is serious and horrific, and ITA there is no blueprint for reporting it.

I don't think (/ want to think) that she made this up, but I wonder if she is incorrectly filling in some blanks. The report (/ his claim?) of flirty texts afterward has me sleuthing that the woman's reported pregnancy by Kelly might be when she first knew/will claim she first knew that she had had intercourse with the guy.

If this is a case of "I don't remember having sex, and therefore I was raped," some will vilify this man immediately and forever, but it should NOT be assumed, and it should be a tough case to prove. Alcohol blacking out can happen post-"event", as it did to me last month when I had (still have) a blackout of the last 90 minutes or so of a long party, at which I was not exhibiting high signs of drunkedness nor inability to function. Sex would likely leave more of an impression on me, and perhaps survive my blackout. Rape would likely leave even MORE of an impression on me, and I'd hope surely survive my blackout.

... aaand, I've gone and provided conjecture to "facts" and "claims" not yet reported or claimed. Back to reality TV threads for me.

Angelskates
01-28-2012, 02:18 PM
I turned right around on him and said firmly - "2 things. #1 - I don't 'date.' #2 - I don't 'drink.' And if you ever come around ringing my doorbell unannounced, you WILL be dealt with accordingly, because I don't allow that privilege to anyone who isn't a blood relative." And mind you, there's cops standing around as I'm saying this (and the fact that my building's super is a Troy City cop had already come up in the conversation) . Didn't stop the conversation, but it did set him back a bit, and he didn't mention it again.

:rofl: No one goes to your house unannounced? What about the UPS guy, girl scouts, someone looking for their dog? What if someone was in distress and needed to use a phone urgently, would you call the cops? Seriously, massive overreaction for a very noncommittal, in passing, comment that you "maybe go out sometime".

The guy suggested "going out sometime", he didn't suggest dating or the consumption of alcohol, he didn't suggest a quick f*ck in the nearest alley (though since that's not a 'drink' or a 'date', maybe that would be acceptable?!), why the need to be so rude? Couldn't you just politely decline with a "no, thanks"?

orbitz
01-28-2012, 02:33 PM
I was conversing with a guy who lives 2 streets west of me. During the course of the conversation he said something to the point of us "maybe going out sometime." I turned right around on him and said firmly - "2 things. #1 - I don't 'date.' #2 - I don't 'drink.' And if you ever come around ringing my doorbell unannounced, you WILL be dealt with accordingly, because I don't allow that privilege to anyone who isn't a blood relative." And mind you, there's cops standing around as I'm saying this (and the fact that my building's super is a Troy City cop had already come up in the conversation) . Didn't stop the conversation, but it did set him back a bit, and he didn't mention it again.

Poor guy. It's going to take a lot for him to get the confidence to ask another girl out again :lol:, and it makes it awfully awkward when you run into him again.

cruisin
01-28-2012, 04:21 PM
Sigh...attitudes like the above are part of the problem, imo. Who gives a feck why she took him to her office? All that matters is that he didn't take no for an answer. At least this is what she is alleging.

Actually, her story is rather questionable. See below.


Whether or not this is true, sources have been published saying that the woman met Greg on a street, and they spoke. They got each other's contact info, and separated. They decided to meet up for drinks another night, after texting each other for a little bit. The night they met for drinks is the one where the incident occurred. Not the first night they met.

The local radio news here reported that the woman said that she was unable to consent - that she was too drunk to consent. That she may have invited him back to her office for the reasons people suspect, but in the end, she changed her mind. However, the woman has said (again, according to "sources") that she was so intoxicated, that she doesn't remember some things from that night.

But, is that rape? She invited him to her office, because her boyfriend was home. From what is coming out now, she only reported the rape after her boyfriend found some of her text messages to Kelly. Did she change her mind before the sex or after she got caught? Or, maybe because Kelly never called her again?


Sources also say that Greg has a series of text messages that the woman had sent him after their encounter in the office, which the source claims were "flirtatious." Greg has given those text messages to the DA's office.

One of those texts, allegedly, says "Why haven't you called me?"

Sounds like a woman snubbed and a woman who got caught. I hope that Kelly sues, if she is lying. Even if he is cleared of the accusations, he will always be tainted by the it. This is the sort of thing (if she is lying) that makes it harder for women who are raped.

Garden Kitty
01-28-2012, 04:35 PM
Inviting someone up to your office, or going out for drinks is absolutely not permission for anything beyond that, and date rape is extremely serious and any allegation of it should be investigated thoroughly.

But likewise, false allegations of rape is extremely serious because the mere accusation can seriously damage a person's reputation.

I don't have any of the facts in this situation, but so far it sounds like the people who have investigated and have access to the info, don't believe the allegations to be true. And the police department recused themselves from investigating and left it to the DA's office to avoid the chance for improper influence since his dad is the police commissioner. So far, it sounds like the investigation was handled properly, but if there are other factors involved, they'll likely come out soon enough.

cruisin
01-29-2012, 03:16 PM
Inviting someone up to your office, or going out for drinks is absolutely not permission for anything beyond that, and date rape is extremely serious and any allegation of it should be investigated thoroughly.

I completely agree. The sticky thing, though, is what would she invite him up to her office? Obviously, she expected something to happen, that she didn't want her boyfriend to see. I suppose that it's possible that he forced himself on her, but it just doesn't ring true, in this case.


But likewise, false allegations of rape is extremely serious because the mere accusation can seriously damage a person's reputation.

Exactly. What is disturbing, is that this is still just an accusation, not a formal charge, this is supposed to be confidential until there is a formal charge. I think whoever leaked Kelly's name should be taken to task.