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SkateFan66
03-10-2012, 08:18 PM
Does Evan still qualify for "comeback" skater status since he ended up not using his entries last year after asking for them? I rather hope not -- given the smaller number of GP invites, I would find it annoying if a skater blocked a couple of them and bowed out yet again, and I can easily see this happen. These days it seems that quite a few of the Olympians have not declared pro status and several have talked about coming back to competition.

Since Lysacek did not compete last year, and thus has not had a "comeback season," it would appear that he could still qualify as a comeback skater. Moreover, Lysacek did not 'block' any skater from competing in the GP last year since replacement skaters were assigned to compete at each event. IMO, Lysacek has earned the right to compete in the 2012 GP based on his past competitive record: Olympic Champion, World Champion, 4CC Champion, & GP Final Champion. Whether you like his skating style or not, you have to acknowledge that he has proven that he is a great competitor. There are very few times since 2006, that Lysacek finished off the podium in an international competition.

haribobo
04-15-2012, 02:20 PM
GP for the US skaters, using last year's criteria-

LADIES
Wagner- seeded, guaranteed 2, possibly 3.
Czisny, Zhang, Nagasu, Gold, Flatt- 1 each, possibly 2.

Zawadzki, Lam, Cesario, Gao, and Hicks (likely JGP?) are all 25-30 on SB list and could end up with a spot but currently it is not guaranteed for them. I'm hoping at least one SA spot goes to Baga or Cesario if they are in good form this summer.

MEN
Abbott- guaranteed 2
Miner, Rippon, Farris, Brown, Dornbush- guaranteed 1

Aaron, Messing, Hochstein, Dyer, Mahbanoozadeh, Razzano, Carriere, and Cassar aren't top 24 and none that high (some not on at all) on the SB list, so they can hope for SA. Weir and Lysacek? We'll see.

PAIRS
Denney/Coughlin and Marley/Brubaker guaranteed 2, Vise/Baldwin get 1.

Yankowskas/Reagan could get one as comeback skaters and we'll see if Cain or Ladwig gets a partner. Denney/Frazier and Simpson/Blackmer are 25-30 on SB list but may go back to JGP. Castelli/Shnapir are 26th so they'll likely get something. Donlan/Speroff and Poapst Knierim should both get SA IMO unless they are injured. Duarte/Grafton and Zhang/Bartholomay can do Nebelhorn and be alternates for SA maybe.

DANCE
Davis/White, Shibutanis, and Hubbell/Donohue get 2 each, 3 for D/W if desired. Aldridge/Eaton and Chock/Bates get 1 each.

K/G-S, Samuelson/Gilles, Cannuscio/McManus could be factors for the SA spots, along with new teams Olson/Hubbell and Lichtman/Cowan (I think that's right?) if they show well at Lake Placid...

DORISPULASKI
04-15-2012, 03:12 PM
They've changed the GP rules several times. I'm wondering whether they will do so again this year.

I'm wondering if we will see a Plushenko rule for medallists at Europeans/4CC's to guarantee Evgeni 2 spots? If so, Zhang & Miner would also benefit.

So would Gachinski and Stolbova/Klimov.

Jemestone
04-15-2012, 03:27 PM
I thought Plushenko could use his comeback skater status to gain 2 spots? Also he is guaranteed 1, surely the second could be a host pick. Same with Gachinski, Zhang, and Miner.

jlai
04-15-2012, 03:35 PM
post..

Did Flatt earn one because of her overall ISU ranking? I thought her season's best wasn't too high.

US men get into this funny situation where 3 of the top 6 at US nationals don't have a great chance of getting a GP spot. This is fairly unusual.

Where can one see a SB list? Thanks. :)

Sylvia
04-15-2012, 03:35 PM
haribobo, there were 2 rumored new teams mentioned in the U.S. Ice Dance splits thread and you've mixed up one of them.


Did Flatt earn one because of her overall ISU ranking? I thought her season's best wasn't too high.
Her ISU World Standings (http://www.isuresults.com/ws/ws/wsladies.htm) ranking will likely drop below top 24 after the 2009-10 points are purged and her 2010-11 points are reduced to 70%. She didn't earn any ranking points this season. She's currently #38 on the SB list.


Where can one see a SB list?
Scroll down to "Season Best Total Scores 2011/2012": http://www.isu.org/vsite/vcontent/page/custom/0,8510,4844-160279-177495-33138-139933-custom-item,00.html

SkateFan66
04-15-2012, 03:37 PM
I thought Plushenko could use his comeback skater status to gain 2 spots? Also he is guaranteed 1, surely the second could be a host pick. Same with Gachinski, Zhang, and Miner.

Since Pluschenko competed in an ISU event last season, I don't think that he could use the comeback skater rule. However, he should be ranked high on the season best list and he will almost definitely get a host pick for COR.

smarts1
04-15-2012, 03:51 PM
Czisny, Zhang, Nagasu, and Gold definitely would qualify for 2 GPs.

haribobo
04-15-2012, 04:06 PM
haribobo, there were 2 rumored new teams mentioned in the U.S. Ice Dance splits thread and you've mixed up one of them.


Fixed, thanks! :)

haribobo
04-15-2012, 04:14 PM
Czisny, Zhang, Nagasu, and Gold definitely would qualify for 2 GPs.

Probably but its not a guarantee. It's also worth keeping in mind that of last season's guaranteed skaters, Rochette, Yuna Kim, Ando, Lepisto, and Shelepen did not compete on the senior GP, freeing up spots for other skaters to get second assignments who otherwise only would get one. I don't expect quite so many dropouts from this year's guaranteed skaters.

b-man
04-15-2012, 06:30 PM
Probably but its not a guarantee. It's also worth keeping in mind that of last season's guaranteed skaters, Rochette, Yuna Kim, Ando, Lepisto, and Shelepen did not compete on the senior GP, freeing up spots for other skaters to get second assignments who otherwise only would get one. I don't expect quite so many dropouts from this year's guaranteed skaters.

I think last year US ladies got a total of 14 spots. So are you indicating we would likely get less this year? With all the depth, we could actually use more than 14.

Sylvia
04-15-2012, 06:37 PM
It doesn't matter how many GP spots the U.S. received last year -- 14 spots for ladies, 14 initially for men (13 after Lysacek's TEB spot was reassigned), 8 for pairs, 11 for dance -- it will depend on which skaters/teams (not just U.S.) are eligible based on the 2012-13 GP selection criteria. At this point in time, it looks like fewer U.S. ladies and men are guaranteed GP selection (based on this season's criteria), but we will have to wait and see.

pinky166
04-15-2012, 06:48 PM
Last year's men's bronze medalist from Junior Worlds, Sweden's Alexander Majorov, only received 1 initial GP assignment. The U.S. men received 14 GP slots (including 2 for Lysacek as a "comeback skater") and who knows if Lysacek and/or Weir may return?

Yes but the scores at last year's JW for the medalists were very low, about 20 points lower than the scores for the medalists this year, so maybe Majarov was not on the top 24 SB list and that is why he only got 1 assignment? He also didn't go to the JGPF last season, so he was probably gauranteed 1 event just based on his JW bronze. If Farris and Brown move up, they have JGPF medals, JW medals, and scores in the top 24 SB all qualifying them for 1 GP event, meaning the chances are good that each could get a 2nd. Armin might not be getting any GP assignments and the same is true for Mroz b/c they didn't make the top 24 SB list or top 24 WR list, Ricky will likely only get 1 because he's just 23 on the WR list, and doesn't even make the cut for the SB list.

Last year: Abbott, Rippon, Miner, Dornbush, Mahbanoozdeh, and Mroz all got 2 GPs each, and Razzano was given the host pick at NHK.

This season I assume: Abbott, Miner, Farris, Brown, Rippon, will get 2 GPs each. Dornbush will get 1 or 2, Mahbanoozadeh will maybe get 1. Host spot is open and could go to anyone.

pinky166
04-15-2012, 06:50 PM
Czisny, Zhang, Nagasu, and Gold definitely would qualify for 2 GPs.

Probably, but the only US lady who is gauranteed 2 events is Ashley. The rest weren't at worlds/didn't finish high enough at worlds to gain thee 2 spots. There is a chance all the ladies you mentioned would get just one spot.

Sylvia
04-15-2012, 06:52 PM
The ISU World Standings rankings list will be purged of the 2009-10 data/points at the end of this season and the skaters' 2010-11 points will be reduced to 70%. If anyone feels like doing the math now... ;)

ISU Season Best Scores (updated after 2012 Worlds; 2012 US Nationals placement added in ; officially split teams are italicized):

* = ISU Junior age-eligible in 2012-13

U.S. LADIES
1 192.41 Ashley WAGNER Four Continents Championships 2012 [S1] (WTT coming up)
8 179.15 Alissa CZISNY GP Trophee E. Bompard 2011 [S2]
9 176.18 Caroline ZHANG Four Continents Championships 2012 [S4]
11 173.22 Mirai NAGASU GP Cup of China 2011 [S7]
12 172.69 Gracie GOLD* JGP Tallinn Cup 2011 [J1] (WTT coming up)
25 157.23 Agnes ZAWADZKI* Four Continents Championships 2012 [S3]
26 156.58 Vanessa LAM* JGP Austria 2011 [S9]
28 153.84 Samantha CESARIO* JGP Baltic Cup 2011 [S-wd]
29 152.48 Christina GAO* GP Cup of China 2011 [S5]
30 151.91 Courtney HICKS* JGP Brisbane 2011
38 147.63 Rachael FLATT GP Rostelecom Cup 2011 [S6]
40 146.74 Hannah MILLER* JGP Trofeo W. Lombardi 2011 [J3]
51 139.70 Joelle FORTE GP Hilton HHonors Skate America 2011 [S14]
52 139.50 Katarina KULGEYKO* JGP Austria 2011 [J9]
57 135.26 Yasmin SIRAJ* JGP Volvo Cup 2011 [S15]
59 132.95 Ashley CAIN* JGP Volvo Cup 2011 [J2]
73 123.39 Jordan BAUTH* Youth Olympic Games 2012 [J-E5]
74 123.20 Lauren DINH* JGP Baltic Cup 2011 [S-dnq]
101 111.79 McKinzie DANIELS* JGP Brasov Cup 2011 [S13]

[b]U.S. MEN
10 238.82 Jeremy ABBOTT Grand Prix Final 2011/12 [S1] (WTT coming up)
17 223.23 Ross MINER Four Continents Championships 2012 [S3]
19 221.97 Joshua FARRIS* World Junior Championships 2012 [S16]
20 221.55 Adam RIPPON Four Continents Championships 2012 [S2] (WTT coming up)
23 214.90 Jason BROWN* World Junior Championships 2012 [S9]
27 205.27 Richard DORNBUSH GP Cup of China 2011 [S13]
38 192.95 Douglas RAZZANO GP Hilton HHonors Skate America 2011 [S5]
41 185.58 Armin MAHBANOOZADEH GP NHK Trophy 2011 [S4]
42 185.49 Brandon MROZ GP Rostelecom Cup 2011 [S14]
53 176.77 Timothy DOLENSKY JGP Volvo Cup 2011 [J2]
62 168.47 Shotaro OMORI* JGP Brasov Cup 2011 [J-P5]
66 166.42 Philip WARREN JGP Brisbane 2011 [J3]
67 166.38 Harrison CHOATE* JGP Brasov Cup 2011 [J4]
69 164.27 Jay YOSTANTO* JGP Trofeo W. Lombardi 2011 [J7]
73 161.85 David WANG* JGP Baltic Cup 2011 [J11]
109 136.33 Emmanuel SAVARY* JGP Volvo Cup 2011 [J12]

U.S. PAIRS
8 185.42 Caydee DENNEY / John COUGHLIN Four Continents Championships 2012 [S1] (WTT coming up)
11 178.89 Mary Beth MARLEY / Rockne BRUBAKER Four Continents Championships 2012 [S2]
[i][14 170.63 Amanda EVORA / Mark LADWIG GP Cup of China 2011 [S3] - SPLIT]
20 155.42 Tiffany VISE / Don BALDWIN GP Hilton HHonors Skate America 2011 [S9]
25 150.55 Haven DENNEY / Brandon FRAZIER* World Junior Championships 2012 [J1]
26 149.02 Marissa CASTELLI / Simon SHNAPIR GP NHK Trophy 2011 [S5]
30 146.35 Britney SIMPSON / Matthew BLACKMER* Junior Grand Prix Final 2011/12 [J2]
36 139.32 Jessica CALALANG / Zack SIDHU* JGP Tallinn Cup 2011 [J4]
[39 138.02 Ashley CAIN / Joshua REAGAN GP Rostelecom Cup 2011 [S6] - SPLIT]
43 133.93 Kylie DUARTE / Colin GRAFTON World Junior Championships 2012 [J3]
56 118.51 Madeline AARON / Max SETTLAGE* JGP Baltic Cup 2011 [J6]
58 118.45 Olivia OLTMANNS / Joshua SANTILLAN* JGP Volvo Cup 2011 [J9]
65 109.61 Caitlin BELT / Michael JOHNSON* Youth Olympic Games 2012 [J-E5]

U.S. DANCE
1 188.55 Meryl DAVIS / Charlie WHITE Grand Prix Final 2011/12 [S1] (WTT coming up)
8 160.55 Maia SHIBUTANI / Alex SHIBUTANI Grand Prix Final 2011/12 [S2]
14 143.95 Madison HUBBELL / Zachary DONOHUE World Championships 2012 [S3]
17 141.14 Alexandra ALDRIDGE / Daniel EATON* World Junior Championships 2012 [J1]
20 135.10 Madison CHOCK / Evan BATES GP Skate Canada International 2011 [S5]
[28 129.63 Lauri BONACORSI / Travis MAGER JGP Trofeo W. Lombardi 2011 [J2] - SPLIT]
34 126.39 Lynn KRIENGKRAIRUT / Logan GIULIETTI-SCHMITT GP NHK Trophy 2011 [S4]
[52 115.22 Isabella CANNUSCIO / Ian LORELLO GP Hilton HHonors Skate America 2011 [S9] - SPLIT]
53 115.12 Kaitlin HAWAYEK / Michael BRAMANTE* JGP Brasov Cup 2011 [J6]
57 114.22 Rachel PARSONS / Michael PARSONS* Youth Olympic Games 2012 [J4]
66 109.61 Charlotte LICHTMAN / Dean COPELY GP Cup of China 2011 [S10]
70 106.74 Emily SAMUELSON / Todd GILLES GP Cup of China 2011 [S8]
73 104.72 Madeline HERITAGE / Nathaniel FAST* JGP Brisbane 2011 [J5]
[74 103.49 Jessica MANCINI / Tyler BROOKS* JGP Baltic Cup 2011 [J9] - SPLIT]
84 94.78 Danielle GAMELIN / Alexander GAMELIN JGP Volvo Cup 2011 [J12]

ETA 2011-12 SENIOR B scores for the U.S. skaters (not counted by ISU as SB scores):

215.20 Stephen Carriere, Ice Challenge, 1st
207.54 Stephen Carriere, Nebelhorn Trophy, 3rd
204.17 Max Aaron, Nebelhorn, 5th
203.42 Keegan Messing, Cup of Nice, 1st
189.68 Jonathan Cassar, Ondrej Nepela, 4th
189.58 Grant Hochstein, Ondrej Nepela, 5th
189.43 Douglas Razzano, Finlandia, 2nd

167.46 Mirai Nagasu, Nebelhorn, 1st
152.72 Caroline Zhang, Ice Challenge, 1st
122.74 Joelle Forte, Nebelhorn, 7th

162.73 Caydee Denney & John Coughlin, Nebelhorn, 3rd
159.09 Mary Beth Marley & Rockne Brubaker, Cup of Nice, 3rd
154.00 Ashley Cain & Joshua Reagan, Cup of Nice, 4th - SPLIT
147.97 Marissa Castelli & Simon Shnapir, Ondrej Nepela, 4th
143.14 Andrea Poapst & Chris Knierim, Ice Challenge, 1st
132.65 Tiffany Vise & Don Baldwin, Nebelhorn, 7th

151.08 Maia Shibutani & Alex Shibutani, Finlandia, 2nd
139.01 Madison Hubbell & Zachary Donohue, Nebelhorn, 1st
138.07 Lynn Kriengkrairut & Logan Giulietti-Schmitt, Ice Challenge, 1st
136.88 Madison Chock & Evan Bates, Finlandia, 3rd
134.88 Isabella Cannuscio & Ian Lorello, Ice Challenge, 2nd - SPLIT
119.42 Anastasia Olson & Jordan Cowan, Nebelhorn, 6th - SPLIT
109.68 Anastasia Cannuscio & Colin McManus, Ondrej Nepela, 5th