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julieann
04-22-2012, 01:35 AM
I'm not sure what this means. B/B competed juniors and destroyed the competition. Their scores would have placed them top five at senior nationals. I could imagine them sneaking into bronze in the 13/14 season..

That means even if they did compete in the seniors, 5 maybe even 6 teams would have beat them. So they were for sure not the next great thing in Canadian pairs, they would have had to get past many pairs. How well you do in jrs has nothing to do with getting on an Olympic team, even MT/T had trouble getting to words this year. Maybe some teams realize that behind closed doors.

Proustable
04-22-2012, 04:05 AM
That means even if they did compete in the seniors, 5 maybe even 6 teams would have beat them. So they were for sure not the next great thing in Canadian pairs, they would have had to get past many pairs. How well you do in jrs has nothing to do with getting on an Olympic team, even MT/T had trouble getting to words this year. Maybe some teams realize that behind closed doors.

Got it. I read NorthernDancer's comments as "They had such a good year together and considerable potential. If they realized said considerable potential, in two years, they could be National bronze medalists."

Which, to me, was eminently reasonable.

NorthernDancers
04-22-2012, 04:11 AM
That means even if they did compete in the seniors, 5 maybe even 6 teams would have beat them. So they were for sure not the next great thing in Canadian pairs, they would have had to get past many pairs. How well you do in jrs has nothing to do with getting on an Olympic team, even MT/T had trouble getting to words this year. Maybe some teams realize that behind closed doors.

Not understanding that math. B/B would have placed 5th this year at Senior with the Junior marks. Add a full season of training, likely a JGF podium finish again, and it would not be ridiculous they finish in 4th. In 2 years, 3rd is not ridiculous.

blademate
04-22-2012, 04:32 AM
Not understanding that math. B/B would have placed 5th this year at Senior with the Junior marks. Add a full season of training, likely a JGF podium finish again, and it would not be ridiculous they finish in 4th. In 2 years, 3rd is not ridiculous.

Junior and Senior are 2 different ball games... Different rules make it harder to get levels on lifts and other elements, and you tend to be scored harsher if you do not do triples at a senior level (i.e. lower PCS and GOEs) so their scores likely would have dropped somewhat. Also, unless Katie got some triples it is unlikely they would have been placed ahead of teams like L/S or D/W because they would just not be competitive internationally. However, you are right that they looked like they had a lot of potential, and if they continued progressing, Senior National medals may have been in their future. Now we will never know.

flowerpower
04-22-2012, 05:49 AM
Maybe Jones and Beharry should team up!

That is an interesting possibility!

fan
04-22-2012, 05:59 AM
bobak's twitter is so emo https://twitter.com/#!/KatherineBobak

Daniskates93
04-22-2012, 06:46 AM
I think she'd be hurt to see you say her twitter is emo. She's in a bit of a tough spot right now. no one knows what happened and she's only a teenager. she should be able to be upset and not have someone in a forum comment on how emo she is. just sayin' :)

julieann
04-22-2012, 07:44 AM
Got it. I read NorthernDancer's comments as "They had such a good year together and considerable potential. If they realized said considerable potential, in two years, they could be National bronze medalists."

Which, to me, was eminently reasonable.

But that is assuming they are the only team that would be getting better and all other teams would either be staying the same or regressing and chances are that wouldn't be happening, the other teams are going to be getting better as well.


Not understanding that math. B/B would have placed 5th this year at Senior with the Junior marks. Add a full season of training, likely a JGF podium finish again, and it would not be ridiculous they finish in 4th. In 2 years, 3rd is not ridiculous.

When a good jr pair team competes against average jr teams the top teams tend to be overinflated but once they move up and compete against senior teams, the judges won't be as generous with the scores. They probably would have been around 5th or 6th at seniors if they competed with the top.


bobak's twitter is so emo https://twitter.com/#!/KatherineBobak

Her tweets are locked. :shuffle:

NorthernDancers
04-22-2012, 02:20 PM
I think she'd be hurt to see you say her twitter is emo. She's in a bit of a tough spot right now. no one knows what happened and she's only a teenager. she should be able to be upset and not have someone in a forum comment on how emo she is. just sayin' :)

Correct. Personal comments like that are off-side. Let's keep it focused on the skating....the public domain.

minx
04-22-2012, 05:56 PM
I'm wondering if someone could update the lists showing splits.

I went and looked up junior pair results for the past few years. The results are consistent, the year after a junior pair winner moves to senior, they finish roughly 8th/9th. It depends on the Olympic cycle and retirements in the senior ranks too.

2011-2012 junior Bobak/Beharry Senior: ??
2010-2011 junior Purich/Schultz Senior in the next year: 8th
2009-2010 junior Purdy/Mariano Senior 9th
2008-2009 junior Jones/Gaskell Senior 9th
2007-2008 junior Pisotta/Stewart Senior 5th
2006-2007 junior MacCush/Evans Senior DNQ from challenge

Two notes: The team of Steele/Shultz finished 4th in 09-10 and again 4th in junior 10-11 before finally going senior and finishing 5th 11-12.

The other team I saw that is still together --pretty well every other team has split, is Lawrence/Sweigers, who were 2nd in 2007-2008 by less than a point and finished 4th the next year in senior ahead of Pisotta/Stewart.

Which doesn't say much at all for longevity in transitioning from junior to senior in pairs. It is rare however for the junior winners to split before going to senior, every other team has at least done one year senior.

shutterbug
04-22-2012, 06:11 PM
Whatever the reason for the split (assuming its confirmed, and assuming they both continue in pairs), who are the potential partners for them?

Beharry - Seguin? Jones? Purich?

Bobak - ?? Schulz?

Hmm, for Ian, I don’t think Jones would be considered. She previously skated at KW, then moved to Barrie, so it’s doubtful that she would be willing to go back to KW. And I’m guessing it would be doubly doubtful that Ian would go to Barrie……Seguin or Purich are the most likely candidates. Seguin would probably be the better physical match, but there is the language barrier to consider. Purich might be a bit small for him, and I’m not sure if they’d be a great fit style-wise, but she already has a throw 3lutz and whole lotta star power. In any event, I imagine an announcement will be forthcoming shortly.

For Katie, I’m not sure there is anyone out there for her at the moment. R. Schultz is too small, and I can’t think of anyone else that even comes close to Ian. Lee will have to beat the bushes a little for her and hope that something worthy jumps out. If not, she’s at the age when a lot of kids are taking a hard look at their future to decide if they’d be better of investing the $$$ into their education. She may choose to go the school route.


I think she'd be hurt to see you say her twitter is emo. She's in a bit of a tough spot right now. no one knows what happened and she's only a teenager. she should be able to be upset and not have someone in a forum comment on how emo she is. just sayin' :)

I imagine she is in a tough spot right now. :( It’s hard to split with not only a partner, but with long-time coaches as well. She’s entitled to be a bit emo right now. And also entitled to some privacy.


But that is assuming they are the only team that would be getting better and all other teams would either be staying the same or regressing and chances are that wouldn't be happening, the other teams are going to be getting better as well.

When a good jr pair team competes against average jr teams the top teams tend to be overinflated but once they move up and compete against senior teams, the judges won't be as generous with the scores. They probably would have been around 5th or 6th at seniors if they competed with the top.


Firstly, junior pair programs and senior pair programs are quite different animals. In the short program, juniors are not allowed to do a 3twist and must do one of two prescribed sbs double jumps. The free program is 30 seconds shorter, and they are allowed to do only two lifts as opposed to 3 in senior. Most of senior teams were doing two Group 5 lifts. These are the highest scoring lifts, and when performed after the halfway mark of the program can earn some very big points. The recommended PCS range at the junior level is also lower than at the senior range. B/B received 8.32 points for their Group 5 lift in their Free at Canadians, so if you were to add another 8 points for a 2nd Group 5 lift and a couple of points for a 3twist in the SP, their overall score at would have been somewhere around 160, putting them solidly into 5th place, and not far behind MT/M at 164.42. That’s without any triple jumps. If you just look at the free program, adding 8 points to their score would have given them 106.79. D/W and L/S only earned 110.95 and 110.29 respectively, and MT/M earned 104.16. And no, I don’t think the judges at Canadians were particularly kind to them at all.

With regard to improvement, younger skaters improve much more rapidly than older skates. Exponential vs incremental if you will. Our top 4 senior teams are now close to their maximum capability and unlikely to improve a great deal more, but B/B had oodles of room to grow. It’s entirely reasonable to think that they might be podium contenders domestically within a couple of years of moving up to senior, assuming of course that they could successfully master sbs triple jumps. Not that any of this matters now......

julieann
04-22-2012, 08:33 PM
Firstly, junior pair programs and senior pair programs are quite different animals.......

That was a longer version of what I said.

They would not have been score the same in the Canadian Sr.s as they would have been in the Canadian Jrs., probably more harsh not less.


Our top 4 senior teams are now close to their maximum capability and unlikely to improve a great deal more, but B/B had oodles of room to grow.

I don't think I could disagree with that statement more.

At any rate, they aren't together so it's a moot point.

sk8rmomma
04-23-2012, 03:40 AM
Awww.... : ( I'm really sad to hear of this split. I truly thought this team was going places.

sk8tingfan30
04-25-2012, 07:12 PM
ian had a tryout with brittney jones today at KW

laceup
04-26-2012, 01:43 AM
Were you there? How did they look?