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View Full Version : US Ladies [#3]: 2011-12 news, musings & everything else



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Vagabond
03-11-2012, 05:52 AM
Have we had any US champion this unpredictable?

Czisny isn't the current U.S. champion. However, I can't say that the current champion is a beacon of consistency either. The same goes for Zayak, Harding, Bobek, Meissner, and Nagasu, each of whom was unpredictable in her own special way. And then there are the men, especially the last two champions, Bradley and Abbott, and several of our recent champions in Pairs. :shuffle:

jlai
03-11-2012, 06:34 AM
I think we just saw Czisny and Abbott compete at Challenge Cup completely unshaved and untapered.

Just curious: Aren't Kostner, Joubert, etc. on a similar training/tapering schedule since they are going to worlds?
(I honestly dunno)

IceAlisa
03-11-2012, 06:41 AM
But that was before flutzes or UR's were punished much, both of which she is prone to. And also there is no longer a spiral in the SP.

Sasha flutzed like crazy but I wouldn't say she was prone to URs. And very few ladies right now have clean lutzes and flip and the WC favorite doesn't even have a lutz at all. :shuffle:

bek
03-11-2012, 06:44 AM
Is anyone familiar with training in elite swimming? Before the Olympics or Worlds, swimmers "shave" (literally, shave body hair) and "taper (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tapering)" (drastically reducing training to maximize recovery and thus competition performance). Swimmers will often compete in local or low-key meets "untapered" and "unshaved;" their times will be much slower than when shaved and tapered, but one can't be in peak competition shape for every meet or every competition. (I know Czisny chose not to taper completely before Nationals, with a goal of peaking in the last week of March rather than late January.)

I think we just saw Czisny and Abbott compete at Challenge Cup completely unshaved and untapered.

It may be the case but neither Alissa or Abbott is the most confident performers. Not sure what showing up like this in competition-does for their self esteem.

olympic
03-11-2012, 03:10 PM
Sasha flutzed like crazy but I wouldn't say she was prone to URs. And very few ladies right now have clean lutzes and flip and the WC favorite doesn't even have a lutz at all. :shuffle:

I was going to post this, but you got it covered.

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My point was that in the middle of the last decade, many on FSU used to :rolleyes: at Sasha's one-splat average per LP. But UR'ing and popping jumps were never something that was a problem for her. On the contrary, she used to attack after the requisite splat and you could count on her to medal (90% of the time). I'd kill for a US lady to have that 'consistency' (or inconsistency) now!

As for 3 spots after '12 Worlds. I'm still trying to be hopeful that Ashley can be a medal threat and Alissa gets a top 10 finish. That might do it, but I'm a little deflated after seeing Alissa's results. Something's wrong. I hope it's not an injury. Maybe it has something to do with her concentration on the 2x-3t affecting the rest of her program, which would be great because the resolution would be to chack that combo and rework her jump layout to go clean. Then again, it doesn't explain her SP woes .... :(

RD
03-11-2012, 03:33 PM
You know, it doesn't HAVE to be an injury. Czisny is just super-inconsistent, that's all. Really, nothing has changed over 9-going 10 years of up-and-down results.

I think Czisny can afford a couple of mistakes and remain in the top 10. She just needs to avoid laying an egg, which unfortunately she has done TWICE already this season...

smarts1
03-11-2012, 03:37 PM
I was going to post this, but you got it covered.

-------

My point was that in the middle of the last decade, many on FSU used to :rolleyes: at Sasha's one-splat average per LP. But UR'ing and popping jumps were never something that was a problem for her. On the contrary, she used to attack after the requisite splat and you could count on her to medal (90% of the time). I'd kill for a US lady to have that 'consistency' (or inconsistency) now!

As for 3 spots after '12 Worlds. I'm still trying to be hopeful that Ashley can be a medal threat and Alissa gets a top 10 finish. That might do it, but I'm a little deflated after seeing Alissa's results. Something's wrong. I hope it's not an injury. Maybe it has something to do with her concentration on the 2x-3t affecting the rest of her program, which would be great because the resolution would be to chack that combo and rework her jump layout to go clean. Then again, it doesn't explain her SP woes .... :(

Amazing what one 4CC and what one Challenge Cup can do to you. The last time I remember reading FSU in late January, everyone was thinking Alissa had a good medals chance at Worlds, and Ashley might just squeak top 8. Funny how fast opinions change around here.

RD
03-11-2012, 03:42 PM
Well, it begs the question- is this legitimate cause for concern? Czisny has had shaky performances in send-offs before and then has gone on to skate respectably in big comps. Nationals is a good example.

Normally I would simply blow this off and say, better here than at Worlds. My only worry is the short turnaround time and the traveling involved in such a short time frame. But, playing DA for a sec- perhaps it might be a good distraction?

I dunno. Even before this I was a bit worried about Czisny (check my earlier posts if you don't believe me) and this outing certainly didn't do anything to ease my fears/suspicions.

____

As for Wagner, I'm definitely amazed at the turnaround of opinions here. All of a sudden she's popping up in podium predictions and some folks have her as high up as 2nd. Again, I'm suspicious. I hope that was not her peak for the season and she's got a little more left in the tank. Besides, last time she went to worlds...

DORISPULASKI
03-11-2012, 03:53 PM
The question with Wagner will be, is the tech panel a tough one or an easy one, and are the callers tough or easy., and how good are the judges at spotting 2 footing jumps, and how hard are they on them. The 4Cc's panel was pretty forgiving.

She still flutzes.
She still double foots.

She doesn't UR the way she used to, but tough tech panels have been murder on all the ladies doing 3/3s before this.

Depending on the judging, she could skate the same and finish in a variety of places.

Jenna
03-11-2012, 04:00 PM
She still flutzes, but her jumps were squeaky clean at 4CC. I don't recall any double footing, save for the 3-3 in the SP.

rhumba
03-11-2012, 04:05 PM
US National is a pre-judged event, IMO. They wanted to give Ashley a chance, however, they were not ready to dump Alissa and they still have some hope for Zhang. That's how the podium turned out. The same for ice dance, they love H/D and pushed this team all the way since day one, even they're not quite ready which showed at 4 CC's result. USFS has their own plan and at times, they chose the wrong skater(s). I also see no reason to send Jeremy and Alissa to Hague. It turned out to be a disaster and demoralized them before Worlds.

BigB08822
03-11-2012, 04:07 PM
Oh come on, I am not doubting that the judges have it in their heads who will finish ABOUT where but you can not seriously think the judges knew they were going to put Zhang in 4th. This was a lady who was basically down and out and came back from no where to medal (pewter). Before Nationals I am willing to bet most judges would have assumed Zhang would be a lot closer to 10th place than 3rd.

johnny158
03-11-2012, 04:13 PM
The question with Wagner will be, is the tech panel a tough one or an easy one, and are the callers tough or easy., and how good are the judges at spotting 2 footing jumps, and how hard are they on them. The 4Cc's panel was pretty forgiving.

She still flutzes.
She still double foots.

She doesn't UR the way she used to, but tough tech panels have been murder on all the ladies doing 3/3s before this.

Depending on the judging, she could skate the same and finish in a variety of places.




But her rival , Asada also was forgiven two-footed landing..
At least Wagner didn't two footed in 4CC

And her 3A is a fluke in 4 CC.. That wiil be a problem in world.

http://www.iceskatingintnl.com/archive/results_four_continents/4c12%20Asada%20Triple%20Axel.htm


Kostner's jump layout is easy, but her jump technique at least pure,

And Remember!!! World will be held in Europe.

Vagabond
03-11-2012, 04:19 PM
US National is a pre-judged event, IMO. They wanted to give Ashley a chance, however, they were not ready to dump Alissa and they still have some hope for Zhang.

Seriously? Zhang hadn't delivered a competitive performance that good in a very long time. I'd even go as far as to say that, when you factor in her improvements in her components, she gave far and away the best skates of her career to that point, regardless of her Total Score.

olympic
03-11-2012, 04:33 PM
Doris,

^^ Ashley flutzes of course, but she hasn't had an issue recently with UR's [thank Mr. Nicks for tightening her rotations - one of her greatest flaws before the season started] and she 2-footed much less at 4CC's [at ALTITUDE] than just weeks earlier at Nats, so I'd say while she'll get dinged with negative GOE on the flutz at Worlds, she should otherwise be good to go. The only wild card is Seniority - she might get held down a little somewhere like PCS at Worlds due to lack of rep in comparison with Mao and Caro. So, she needs to make sure she gets that 2x-3t to give the judges no excuses - it's all doable.

She wasn't perfect at either 4CC's and Nats, so her ambitious nature still has something to strive for by Worlds. I'd say she's peaking nicely. I'm not worried about her having left anything at a previous competition.
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Re Alissa, I just don't know. I still think the playing around with unattainable jump combos is probably the culprit. She might be still injured, but after the Flatt debacle last year, I'm sure she'd withdraw in time if it was still a serious issue in a week or so. She's come too far in the last year for it to be old Alissa re-emerging IMO