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View Full Version : US Ladies [#3]: 2011-12 news, musings & everything else



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RD
02-24-2012, 06:17 PM
No surprise that Czisny is showing signs of inconsistency again. Even if it has gotten a little bit better overall, doesn't mean it won't be tough to watch her when spots are on the line...especially since she has bombed previous worlds (2007,2009).

But I am also a bit concerned about Wagner since this is a first for her to be in this type of position. We don't know how she will handle it (or, god forbid, if she will at all). It looks good so far, but hopefully the excitement does not overwhelm her/she keeps nerves in check. I like what I'm seeing so far, but I know better than to get excited. Especially after what happened the past 2 years.

fenway2
02-24-2012, 06:26 PM
Do you mean 2014? yes

AliasJohnDoe
02-24-2012, 07:07 PM
But I am also a bit concerned about Wagner since this is a first for her to be in this type of position. We don't know how she will handle it (or, god forbid, if she will at all).

Not really Ashleys first time in this position. Ashley went into Worlds 2008 as the top placing American at US Nationals and bombed at Worlds placing 16th. But she's a different skater now, and I expect her to do well.

pinky166
02-24-2012, 07:17 PM
The writing off of Alissa is just because of Ashley's recent exciting results I think. Alissa is last season's news and now Ashley's skating really well and winning titles so everyone's all gung-ho about her and that. The same thing will probably happen to Ashley next season when someone else has a stellar season and she can't skate like she did at Nats and 4CCs every time out.

Anyways, were any novice girls assigned to Gardenia? Karen Chen is really something special!

Chris_E
02-24-2012, 07:24 PM
Not really Ashleys first time in this position. Ashley went into Worlds 2008 as the top placing American at US Nationals and bombed at Worlds placing 16th. But she's a different skater now, and I expect her to do well.

Thank you for mentioning she is a different skater now. Ashley in 2008 was very much a Junior skater and many first year seniors place around 15th their first year. She may have been the highest ranked skater that year at Nationals but Kimmie and Bebe Liang were clearly Senior quality skaters and skated like it.

As for Alissa, I think people are over-reacting about her performances this year. Yes, the GPF was a disaster but her Nationals programs were really not that bad overall. The old Alissa would give up after a mistake but she fights for everything now and is able to recover enough to still score well. I think the best strategy for her is to go for 5-6 triples and hope that's enough to place well.

I think both our ladies have a great shot at both placing in the top 6 if they skate their best and honestly I think they both have a shot at the podium. Will the judges let that happen, doubtful but it is possible. Of course I don't want to jinx them :)

olympic
02-24-2012, 07:53 PM
Heading into Worlds, any speculation as to jump layout for Ashley and Alissa in the LP?

I would like to see -

Ashley (move 3 jump combo to 2d half of program; she did that with Priscilla) -

3f-2t [arms overhead on 2t]
2x-3t
3z
x-3l
x-3s
x-3l-2t-2t
x-3f

Alissa (ditch the 2x-3t; not happening, but don't lose the 3t. 3l's look strong, though, even at worse performances this year) -

3z-2t
2x
3f
x-3z
x-3t-2t
x-3l-2t-2l
x-3l

sk9tingfan
02-24-2012, 08:03 PM
Heading into Worlds, any speculation as to jump layout for Ashley and Alissa in the LP?

I would like to see -

Ashley (move 3 jump combo to 2d half of program; she did that with Priscilla) -

3f-2t [arms overhead on 2t]
2x-3t
3z
x-3l
x-3s
x-3l-2t-2t
x-3f

Do you realistically see Ashley getting rid of the flutz by Worlds?

olympic
02-24-2012, 08:08 PM
Do you realistically see Ashley getting rid of the flutz by Worlds?

Well, she does it ... but with an edge call and she'll no doubt include it in her Worlds LP

Chris_E
02-24-2012, 08:36 PM
Do you realistically see Ashley getting rid of the flutz by Worlds?

Pretty much every top lady either flutzes or lips. So, does it really matter anymore? She'll get -1GOE and leave it at that. Really a pet peeve of mine that everyone points out flutzers but lippers as totally fine.

sk9tingfan
02-24-2012, 08:42 PM
Pretty much every top lady either flutzes or lips. So, does it really matter anymore? She'll get -1GOE and leave it at that. Really a pet peeve of mine that everyone points out flutzers but lippers as totally fine.

Your point is well taken. This also goes for the men who have gotten a lot of edge call for lipping.

victoriaheidi
02-24-2012, 09:42 PM
Pretty much every top lady either flutzes or lips. So, does it really matter anymore? She'll get -1GOE and leave it at that. Really a pet peeve of mine that everyone points out flutzers but lippers as totally fine.

Agreed. People tend to point out flutzes and ignore lips. But at the same time, I'd rather see a flutz or a lip in an otherwise excellent 7-triple program than a 5 or 6-triple program from someone scared to do one for fear of getting an edge call.

Vagabond
02-24-2012, 10:38 PM
Pretty much every top lady either flutzes or lips. So, does it really matter anymore?

Even if we accept for the sake of argument that there are no top ladies out there who can consistently land a true lutz and a true flip, I would argue YES because:

1. Some manage to flutz and lip.
2. Some who do flutz or lip do so only on occasion.
3. Some flutz or lip more markedly than others.
4. Some top skaters (such as Kostner, at the moment) don't attempt one or the other of the two jumps for one reason or another.
5. At some point, there most likely are going to be top ladies who cab consistently land both a true lutz and a true flip.

Chris_E
02-24-2012, 10:40 PM
Even if we accept for the sake of argument that there are no top ladies out there who can consistently land a true lutz and a true flip, I would argue YES because:

1. Some manage to flutz and lip.
2. Some who do flutz or lip do so only on occasion.
3. Some flutz or lip more markedly than others.
4. Some top skaters (such as Kostner, at the moment) don't attempt one or the other of the two jumps for one reason or another.
5. At some point, there most likely are going to be top ladies who cab consistently land both a true lutz and a true flip.

I'm not saying that no lady will ever have both a true lutz and flip but this season, I don't think it will really matter. Considering this has been a topic of conversation for 15+ years and we're still seeing skaters flutzing and lipping, I don't think it will ever really go away.

Vagabond
02-24-2012, 10:49 PM
I'm not saying that no lady will ever have both a true lutz and flip but this season, I don't think it will really matter. Considering this has been a topic of conversation for 15+ years and we're still seeing skaters flutzing and lipping, I don't think it will ever really go away.

Ah, I see.

Well, maybe it won't matter. In fact, it probably won't.

But if Wagner or Asada pips Kostner out of a gold medal by doing a couple of flutzes in the Free Skate, there will be a lot of :argue:

RFOS
02-24-2012, 10:56 PM
Do you realistically see Ashley getting rid of the flutz by Worlds?

She doesn't always flutz now, or at least doesn't always get called for it (it wasn't called in her 4CC free skate this year, or at Nationals last year, for example). I posted screen caps after Nationals last year that convinced me that her blade took off of the correct edge at that competition (albeit a very shallow one) even though her body was leaning to the inside (and what do you know, the screen cap is still available http://i52.tinypic.com/2w3aqnd.png. The original topic is here: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?t=77543).