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View Full Version : US Ladies [#3]: 2011-12 news, musings & everything else



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pinky166
02-24-2012, 04:36 PM
I'm wondering if we've seen Alissa's peak now? She will be 25 in a few months and for someone who has rather weak jumps even when she lands them how much better can she get?

I think her peak was last year honestly. It's a shame she narrowly missed out on a World Medal, and if she delivers there is a chance she medal this year, but I honestly see last season as her Swan Song, showing the World she was the real deal after having so many give up on her. I could see her sticking around until Sochi just to see if she makes the team, which might happen if the other ladies don't step it up between now and then, but I think that's the absolute latest she will stick around for. If she medals at Worlds this season, I could see her retiring afterwards. She is almost 25 and it's a different situation from European skaters like Kostner who do not have any real competition nationally and can afford to take breaks, compete with easy content, not do so well for awhile, etc. If Alissa wants to remain one of the top US ladies, she'll have to train her ass off, which is hard to do when you're 25, 26 and past your peak.

sk9tingfan
02-24-2012, 04:41 PM
What is particularly stunning about Ashley is her determination not only to clean up her problematic elements, but also to develop the mental fortitude to deal with extreme pressurized competition situations.

As beautiful as Alissa is as a skater, her degree of unreliability is unnerving. Regardless of the fact that the likelihood that she is going to fall has somewhat decreased, I still find watching her stressful and I would guess that I am not alone.

I don't get the same feeling with Ashley and was blown away by her performance at 4CC's in terms of her attack and security with respect to her programs. Caroline Zhang is starting to display the same fortitude. It is a beautiful thing to watch for both skaters.

One of the magical things about Michelle Kwan was the same attack and committment and Ashley and Caroline are exhibiting the same resolve.

Vagabond
02-24-2012, 04:50 PM
For what it's worth, Czisny's ISU Personal Best Scores for the Short Program and Free Skate are from the current season. It's also worth noting that she's been trying to improve her technical content, and she has apparently fixed the edge on her flip. I think she can set a Personal Best for her Total Score at Worlds next month.

Now, whether she can keep it up for another couple of seasons and make the Olympic Team is another question altogether. But I'm looking forward to finding out.

Cheylana
02-24-2012, 05:07 PM
What's up with everyone trying to declare Alissa dead and buried? Alissa was trying to upgrade her content for this season, going after triple-triples, and while that is totally admirable, I'm not surprised it threw her game off a bit. I just could never see how she was going to get off a fully rotated 3Lz-3T, or even a 2A-3T, when her solo jumps barely get around. Training these tough elements might have caused her otherwise strong elements to have suffered, which is not going to do much for her confidence level. I hope she's scrapped the triple-triple stuff for now because I think a clean, 5-6 triple Alissa gets somewhere on the World podium.

ETA - I see Vagabond was making some of the same points I was.

IceAlisa
02-24-2012, 05:08 PM
What's up with everyone trying to declare Alissa dead and buried?

I know, right?

sk9tingfan
02-24-2012, 05:17 PM
What's up with everyone trying to declare Alissa dead and buried? Alissa was trying to upgrade her content for this season, going after triple-triples, and while that is totally admirable,

My comments were not intended to bury Alissa. Alissa on a secure day is absolutely exquisite and capable of exceeding Ashley's scores; history attests to that. I was just commenting on the obvious differences in mental attitude. Alissa, if on during Worlds could make the podium at Worlds.

victoriaheidi
02-24-2012, 05:23 PM
My comments were not intended to bury Alissa. Alissa on a secure day is absolutely exquisite and capable of exceeding Ashley's scores; history attests to that. I was just commenting on the obvious differences in mental attitude. Alissa, if on during Worlds could make the podium at Worlds.

TECHNICALLY, Alissa's personal best is not as high as Ashley's, but I'd rather that we not get into an argument about that.

fenway2
02-24-2012, 05:27 PM
Alissa on a secure day is absolutely exquisite and capable of exceeding Ashley's scores; history attests to that. How so? Ashley's personal best is over 10 points higher than Alissa's.

Vagabond
02-24-2012, 05:27 PM
TECHNICALLY, Alissa's personal best is not as high as Ashley's, but I'd rather that we not get into an argument about that.

Then why bring it up?

The issue we were most recently discussing was whether Czisny had peaked. Wagner's successes or failures don't have anything to do with that.

sk9tingfan
02-24-2012, 05:29 PM
How so? Ashley's personal best is over 10 points higher than Alissa's.

Ok. I stand corrected, but that is a recent occurrence, no?

Cheylana
02-24-2012, 05:29 PM
My comments were not intended to bury Alissa. Alissa on a secure day is absolutely exquisite and capable of exceeding Ashley's scores; history attests to that. I was just commenting on the obvious differences in mental attitude. Alissa, if on during Worlds could make the podium at Worlds.
No worries, I was moreso responding to the folks who are saying Alissa has already peaked. I think it's too early to say that.

victoriaheidi
02-24-2012, 05:35 PM
Then why bring it up?

The issue we were most recently discussing was whether Czisny had peaked. Wagner's successes or failures don't have anything to do with that.

It was for a point of clarification. I was responding to the post that said that Alissa's history proves that she's capable of outscoring Ashley.

Truth is, they've only gone head-to-head internationally once. And that was 2009 CoR, where Ashley won the silver and Alissa placed 4th. But that was a while ago and they've both changed drastically since then.

fenway2
02-24-2012, 05:40 PM
If she medals at Worlds this season, I could see her retiring afterwards. I can't. I see her thinking, "well I'm a world medalist now and it's less than 2 years until Sochi so my chances of making the Olympics are pretty good." And if she bombs again, I think she won't want to end her career on another bad note. IOW, I see her staying in until 2012 no matter what.

victoriaheidi
02-24-2012, 05:49 PM
I can't. I see her thinking, "well I'm a world medalist now and it's less than 2 years until Sochi so my chances of making the Olympics are pretty good." And if she bombs again, I think she won't want to end her career on another bad note. IOW, I see her staying in until 2012 no matter what.

Do you mean 2014?

Sylvia
02-24-2012, 06:10 PM
Truth is, they've only gone head-to-head internationally once. And that was 2009 CoR, where Ashley won the silver and Alissa placed 4th. But that was a while ago and they've both changed drastically since then.
Thanks, now that's an interesting point!