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View Full Version : US Ladies [#3]: 2011-12 news, musings & everything else



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berthesghost
02-11-2012, 04:24 AM
I'm so proud to have a ladies national champion who is actually competing for medals n shiz like that. :kickass: Not even a full point PCS behind Mao, and a point ahead of Kanako. I think we need to find all the posters who said she won't be taken seriously internationally and send them a bunch of :blah::P and :rolleyes::lol: shes so far #2 at a comp that was once won by the likes of Katy Taylor. Must we also send :blah::P and :rolleyes: to all the posters who lose faith in czisny even though she's won tons more stuff than Wagner?

RD
02-11-2012, 04:53 AM
Umm, let's wait until after the LP first. And I bet the altitude is going to play a serious factor as well.

When Wagner is given 120+ pts INTERNATIONALLY for a near-clean LP...


shes so far #2 at a comp that was once won by the likes of Katy Taylor.

Shows how far 4CCs has come in just a few short years, no?

Jenna
02-11-2012, 06:35 AM
:lol: shes so far #2 at a comp that was once won by the likes of Katy Taylor. Must we also send :blah::P and :rolleyes: to all the posters who lose faith in czisny even though she's won tons more stuff than Wagner?

I can't believe you're trying to compare the year Taylor won to this year. The competition this year is considerably more difficult. Wagner skated very well today, and that performance would be in the top five at Worlds, easily.

Bosha
02-11-2012, 06:56 AM
Umm, let's wait until after the LP first. And I bet the altitude is going to play a serious factor as well.

When Wagner is given 120+ pts INTERNATIONALLY for a near-clean LP...



Shows how far 4CCs has come in just a few short years, no?

I think that the IJS has made 4CC more important. For skaters not going to Worlds or who may not make it out of qualifying at Worlds but do so here, this competition is an opportunity to establish a higher season's best , and perhaps in exceptional cases to obtain a Grand Prix assignment. Additionally, skaters not going to Worlds receive championship-level points to enhance world standings.

For those going to Worlds, a good score and placement here will count in the world standings if said skater completely bombs at Worlds.

The only positives of this competition in the 6.0 system was to skate in front of international judges and for the top skaters, earn some money, which are good reasons to skate at 4CCs, but are not, in my opinion, as important as the reasons to skate 4CCs under IJS.

Just my 2 cents.

RockTheTassel
02-11-2012, 07:29 AM
Here's this season's SB pre-4CC-

7 179.15 Alissa CZISNY USA ISU GP Trophee E. Bompard 2011 19.11.2011
8 173.22 Mirai NAGASU USA ISU GP Cup of China 2011 05.11.2011
9 172.69 Gracie GOLD USA ISU JGP Tallinn Cup 2011 15.10.2011
14 165.65 Ashley WAGNER USA ISU GP NHK Trophy 2011 12.11.2011
22 156.58 Vanessa LAM USA ISU JGP Austria 2011 30.09.2011
25 153.84 Samantha CESARIO USA ISU JGP Baltic Cup 2011 16.09.2011
27 152.48 Christina GAO USA ISU GP Cup of China 2011 05.11.2011
28 151.91 Courtney HICKS USA ISU JGP Brisbane 2011 09.09.2011
30 149.38 Agnes ZAWADZKI USA ISU GP Rostelecom Cup 2011 26.11.2011
33 147.63 Rachael FLATT USA ISU GP Rostelecom Cup 2011 26.11.2011
35 146.74 Hannah MILLER USA ISU JGP Trofeo W. Lombardi 2011 08.10.2011
44 140.70 Caroline ZHANG USA and so on down the line.....

With Cesario posting a higher SB than our bronze and pewter medalists, and also higher than the 5th and 6th place finishers from Nationals, I can't understand people saying she wasn't a medal contendor. Last year she had underrotation issues but not nearly as much this year. That's not to say a medal was guaranteed but she deserved to be in the discussion...I just hope one year she can get to Nationals uninjured and actually prove that. :/

But then I guess the doubters are the same people that said Ashley's talk was all hype and that she'd never skate a clean short at Nationals. People are full of negative talk until someone shuts them up with a good performance. I guess two very fine bronze medal skates on the JGP and incredible skating at Liberty Open don't count for much with the doubters since it wasn't on US tv. :blah:

Oh, I'm not saying that Cesario didn't have the potential to be in the mix. There was just a lot of talk about someone who's had decent success but hasn't shown anything outstanding. During this season, I saw several posts claiming that she had a good shot of making the top ten at Worlds. That's a pretty big prediction for a skater who hasn't even finished in the top ten at Nationals. And yes, I know it was likely that she would have if she hadn't been hindered by injuries. But it hasn't happened yet.

I like her skating too, and I don't mean to be down on her. But I don't think the recent trend of over-hyping the US junior ladies is a good thing. It just adds unnecessary pressure and, in some cases, the negative talk happens because the skater doesn't manage to live up to expectations.

To someone who knows the JGP rules, is Cesario eligible to compete for another year? If not, does she have a chance at a senior GP?

Sylvia
02-11-2012, 07:38 AM
To someone who knows the JGP rules, is Cesario eligible to compete for another year?
Yes, if she wants to (she turned 18 this past August).

haribobo
02-11-2012, 12:14 PM
I like her skating too, and I don't mean to be down on her. But I don't think the recent trend of over-hyping the US junior ladies is a good thing. It just adds unnecessary pressure and, in some cases, the negative talk happens because the skater doesn't manage to live up to expectations.

To someone who knows the JGP rules, is Cesario eligible to compete for another year? If not, does she have a chance at a senior GP?

People in all sports talk about strong up-and-comers and the potential they have to do well. If you crumble at the prospect of random people talking about your potential on an online discussion board, then you're not made of very strong stock and aren't likely to be a success anyway. I would say most of these skaters are tougher than you give them credit for, and are bred from a young age to either not go on these sites or ignore what they read and/or use the comments to fuel them. I don't see how saying a skater is competing at a World-top 10 level is setting them up for failure. It is a celebration of their success. Also, its one thing to say "oh Susie is definitely going to win everything" vs. "Susie has been skating well enough to do X Y and Z." Its just silly IMO to censor what we really think about how good a skater is because god forbid the skater in question is reading and might be stressed out by it. Good. Let them get stressed out. It will make them stronger to learn how to deal with the pressure now than in 2 years when they're suddenly on the world team and hearing all of this for the first time.

Regarding her chances for a GP- yes, she can do JGP for another year if she chooses- but if she chooses to go senior internationally then USFS could choose to send her to Skate America- also with the 25th highest SB score - she could garner herself a GP invitation from another country, possibly. Right now its all a big borderline case. With Czisny, Wagner, Nagasu, and Gold (if she moves up) all probably scoring high enough to get GP spots on their own, we'll have to see how Zhang and Zawadzki do at 4CC, and possibly Lam and Gao at Jr. Worlds too- USFS could choose to reward someone new with the Skate America spot as they did with Joelle Forte this year. A lot will depend on who is skating well this summer and who decides to go senior or stay junior internationally.

victoriaheidi
02-11-2012, 05:32 PM
Oh, I'm not saying that Cesario didn't have the potential to be in the mix. There was just a lot of talk about someone who's had decent success but hasn't shown anything outstanding. During this season, I saw several posts claiming that she had a good shot of making the top ten at Worlds. That's a pretty big prediction for a skater who hasn't even finished in the top ten at Nationals. And yes, I know it was likely that she would have if she hadn't been hindered by injuries. But it hasn't happened yet.


Exactly. I'm not really a huge Cesario fan, but I feel like people have really high expectations for her, and I don't know that she's proven that she's capable of everything people expect of her.

RD
02-11-2012, 05:33 PM
^ Couldn't have said it better myself. IMHO- it's ado over basically nothing (i.e. I'll believe it when I see it)

RD
02-11-2012, 05:34 PM
I think that the IJS has made 4CC more important. For skaters not going to Worlds or who may not make it out of qualifying at Worlds but do so here, this competition is an opportunity to establish a higher season's best , and perhaps in exceptional cases to obtain a Grand Prix assignment. Additionally, skaters not going to Worlds receive championship-level points to enhance world standings.

For those going to Worlds, a good score and placement here will count in the world standings if said skater completely bombs at Worlds.

The only positives of this competition in the 6.0 system was to skate in front of international judges and for the top skaters, earn some money, which are good reasons to skate at 4CCs, but are not, in my opinion, as important as the reasons to skate 4CCs under IJS.

Just my 2 cents.

That's a good point, I never thought about it that way.

victoriaheidi
02-11-2012, 05:45 PM
Regarding her chances for a GP- yes, she can do JGP for another year if she chooses- but if she chooses to go senior internationally then USFS could choose to send her to Skate America- also with the 25th highest SB score - she could garner herself a GP invitation from another country, possibly. Right now its all a big borderline case. With Czisny, Wagner, Nagasu, and Gold (if she moves up) all probably scoring high enough to get GP spots on their own, we'll have to see how Zhang and Zawadzki do at 4CC, and possibly Lam and Gao at Jr. Worlds too- USFS could choose to reward someone new with the Skate America spot as they did with Joelle Forte this year. A lot will depend on who is skating well this summer and who decides to go senior or stay junior internationally.

Also, I don't think this will be the case post-4CCs and Worlds. No guarantees.

RockTheTassel
02-11-2012, 11:35 PM
People in all sports talk about strong up-and-comers and the potential they have to do well. If you crumble at the prospect of random people talking about your potential on an online discussion board, then you're not made of very strong stock and aren't likely to be a success anyway. I would say most of these skaters are tougher than you give them credit for, and are bred from a young age to either not go on these sites or ignore what they read and/or use the comments to fuel them. I don't see how saying a skater is competing at a World-top 10 level is setting them up for failure. It is a celebration of their success. Also, its one thing to say "oh Susie is definitely going to win everything" vs. "Susie has been skating well enough to do X Y and Z." Its just silly IMO to censor what we really think about how good a skater is because god forbid the skater in question is reading and might be stressed out by it. Good. Let them get stressed out. It will make them stronger to learn how to deal with the pressure now than in 2 years when they're suddenly on the world team and hearing all of this for the first time.

You're right that skaters need to learn how to handle the criticism and not fall apart at remarks from fans. Of course there's nothing wrong with critcism and comments, but the huge, unrealistic predictions for the junior skaters are annoying and probably not helpful to them. Normal pressure and fans hoping a skater will improve is one thing. The predictions or expectations that are very unlikely to be fulfilled by a skater (such as Cesario making the top ten at Worlds this season or Gracie Gold becoming the next Michelle Kwan) are another.

victoriaheidi
02-12-2012, 05:29 AM
Umm, let's wait until after the LP first. And I bet the altitude is going to play a serious factor as well.

When Wagner is given 120+ pts INTERNATIONALLY for a near-clean LP...


Can't say how she did, cleanliness-wise or overall, but, umm, check that score.

eurodance2001
02-12-2012, 05:33 AM
Zhang and Wagner have both thrown it down so far...

Spareoom
02-12-2012, 05:38 AM
BOOYAH, backacha haters! Ashley and Caroline just showed the world that the USA ladies can still bring it. I'm SO proud of them!