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View Full Version : US Ladies [#3]: 2011-12 news, musings & everything else



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Sparks
01-24-2012, 02:41 PM
But the selection process to nationals isn't fair. Some sectionals are as easy as pie to get into and others are very tough. You have some skaters who would make it easily if they were in an easier section..

Using nationals only would be fair if everyone had the same shot at getting into Nationals. But its not the case.

But this isn't always the case. The quality of the competitors at various Regionals and Sectionals will vary from season to season. That's the way of sport...
This is like Sasha complaining she was in a harder Qualifying round in 2003. :rolleyes:
Tough.

bek
01-24-2012, 02:42 PM
OT but maybe USFS should consider the possibility/logistics of holding ONE Sectional Championship to qualify for Nationals, like Canada's Challenge?

Back on topic... good to see Gracie Gold skate a clean SP last night! It was an enjoyable Junior Ladies event, I thought.

I merely brought it up because people were suggesting that it was only fair to have JGP spots selected by big competitions. And I actually COULD agree with that if the process to get into the big competitions were the same for all.

I do think though it would be smart to have some qualifying competitions before the JGP too though.


But this isn't always the case. The quality of the competitors at various Regionals and Sectionals will vary from season to season. That's the way of sport...
This is like Sasha complaining she was in a harder Qualifying round in 2003.
Tough.

Worlds is worlds. But if we are talking about a competition to see who is the best to represent the US at senior and national competitions than it in the US best interest to devise a system that ensures that the best skaters go. Look who in the past the US has had to leave out of the JGP due to their JGP selection process Nagasu, Agnes etc and those two both medaled at Junior Worlds that year.

berthesghost
01-24-2012, 02:46 PM
But the selection process to nationals isn't fair. Some sectionals are as easy as pie to get into and others are very tough. You have some skaters who would make it easily if they were in an easier section..

Using nationals only would be fair if everyone had the same shot at getting into Nationals. But its not the case.Sooo.... Only the best and brigest should go to nats where starting with 4th place they get to learn how to stay home while far inferior skaters from other countries skate at worlds?
Tricling down the same selection process as the isu uses is at least consistent. Otherwise itslikewhen they judged nats with 6.0 then sent skaters off to worlds to compete under cop.

bek
01-24-2012, 02:50 PM
Sooo.... Only the best and brigest should go to nats where starting with 4th place they get to learn how to stay home while far inferior skaters from other countries skate at worlds?
Tricling down the same selection process as the isu uses is at least consistent. Otherwise itslikewhen they judged nats with 6.0 then sent skaters off to worlds to compete under cop.

The ISU has different goals than the US. The US's main goal is to ensure that their best young skaters get the international competition they need to be the best in the sport. A process that bases it on nationals, and doesn't ensure the best get to Nationals; does not do it.

And the ISU doesn't base GP spots on just worlds, do they. Otherwise how did Suzuki and Nagasu get two. If the USFSA wants to keep nationals the way it is fine. But they need to devise a better system for GP spots. You can't even use the ISU an excuse for that because the ISU doesn't give out GP spots like that. The ISU looks at things like seasonal best scores.

I.e the fact that Suzuki didn't get to do worlds because of how crazy skating for Japan is, didn't keep her out of the GP and put some skater not nearly as good as her in. So why does the USFSA devise their JGP selection process this way.

UGG
01-24-2012, 02:57 PM
I don't know too much about sectionals, but would it be more fair to hold the competitions and then instead of picking the top 4 at each competition, the top scores combined from all competitions move on to nationals?

Sylvia
01-24-2012, 03:00 PM
I don't know too much about sectionals, but would it be more fair to hold the competitions and then instead of picking the top 4 at each competition, the top scores combined from all competitions move on to nationals?
See this thread from 2010: Hypothetical: Would a Qualifying Score system for US Nationals be more fair? (http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?t=74925)

Louis
01-24-2012, 03:44 PM
The problem with the JGP selection is that very young (developmental) skaters are assigned to competitions based on results they achieved nine to ten months previously.

That's an eternity in skating, especially for young teenagers whose skills and bodies are changing at a rapid pace.

The solution is simple - use the spring and summer competitions as JGP qualifiers.

haribobo
01-24-2012, 04:28 PM
I.e the fact that Suzuki didn't get to do worlds because of how crazy skating for Japan is, didn't keep her out of the GP and put some skater not nearly as good as her in. So why does the USFSA devise their JGP selection process this way.

:respec: Very good point. There should be some recognition of the disparity in quality sometimes among the sections.

I don't think anyone here is suggesting that Gracie and Leah should've gotten 2 events right off the bat- just one for sure. The fact is that their results this past summer were so strong that to ignore them looked really silly- they should have been among the first assigned so they had the opportunity to get a second event. Along with those two, top 3 in juniors 2011 Hicks, Dinh, and Kulgeyko could get spots, and then Cesario, Lam, and Siraj. Although personally I'd have liked to see Cesario at Skate America instead of Caroline Zhang to clear up more space on JGP for skaters like Hannah Miller. I'm sure a head to head competition among these skaters in the summer/fall would have put most of these skaters at the top of the list except for Dinh and Kulgeyko. Daniels and Cain based on their respective summer comp results could wait to see if there were any spots left at the end.

Sylvia
01-24-2012, 04:34 PM
2011-2012 US JGP Assignment Predictions/Discussion (http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?t=77233&page=18) :P (ETA: post #359 offers some interesting food for thought, IMO)

Jammers
01-24-2012, 11:31 PM
The problem is just to many good young skaters coming up and not enough events. I bet a country like Canada would like that problem.

Triple Butz
01-24-2012, 11:51 PM
They can't/shouldn't do case by case decisions. That kind of criteria just screams bias/unfair selection. That's basically telling certain skaters "we're not going to even let you try to compete because So-and-So here has better jumps despite the fact you qualified for a spot here and she didn't. So even though we're basing it purely on what we think she can do, we're going to give her your assignment and just hope she kicks ass and makes us look good."

It may be better to have scoring play a part in the decision, but ultimately it should come down to placements in the major competitions when the pressure is on. That's about as fair as you can get...

But if they change the rules, the skaters wouldn't expect a spot just because they finished 4th at Jr Nationals. It shouldn't be too much to ask that a summer monitoring session or summer club competition be used since the skaters should be prepared to compete anyhow. I don't think it's unfair at all to say, "Thanks for skating decently at Jr Nationals, but you currently don't look ready, so we're going to send someone who is."

kwanatic
01-25-2012, 08:36 PM
Have they started posting any news about the senior ladies yet? The SP is tomorrow...any practice videos?

Sylvia
01-25-2012, 08:39 PM
Some practice reports are posted in the US Nationals forum in Kiss and Cry (competition news/discussion is supposed to go in there).

ETA: Czisny flew to San Jose yesterday and I assume will practice today.

RD
01-25-2012, 08:41 PM
For those of us without access to that forum, however, there are practice reports on Twitter as well. @DougMattis is doing a good job reporting "from the sidelines".

According to him, C. Zhang has shown significant improvement; Wagner and Nagasu seem ready to go. No word on Czisny yet.

Sasha'sSpins
01-25-2012, 08:41 PM
Have they started posting any news about the senior ladies yet? The SP is tomorrow...any practice videos?

Gulp-almost forgot. It's Pepto Bismol time. Gotta run and buy some...:scream: