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The Fly On The Wall
01-19-2012, 10:08 PM
I'm glad all of you know what is best for these skaters. What would they ever do without your advice?

:lol::lol::rofl::respec::lol::lol::rofl::respec::l ol::lol::rofl::respec:

Loves_Shizuka
01-19-2012, 11:42 PM
I'm glad all of you know what is best for these skaters. What would they ever do without your advice?

Ha. Good work ;): I think this thread is starting to get a little too involved and personal. It's one thing to discuss a skaters technique. It's quite another to start dissecting the Nagasu family finances (for example) :slinkaway

Coco
01-20-2012, 02:39 AM
:huh: Well, he has an Olympic gold medal to show for it. I suspect that at this stage in her career, coaching a student to an OGM was worth whatever compromises it required.

I think Frank Carroll is still the best at having students show up to big competitions fully trained and in peak form. In many cases, his skaters have far exceeded expectations and/or where their natural talent should've gotten them. (Tim Goebel, anyone? :lol: ) I can't think of a Carroll skater who ever showed up to a World Championships or Olympic Games unprepared. He has done well even with bona fide head cases like Bowman (RIP) and Nagasu.

I respect Frank, but I want to be devil's advocate here. He has the OGM to show for it because the COP scale of values + penalties for underrotation conspired to artificially elevate skaters w/o reliable quads.

I'm glad Frank has an OGM. But he got it in a really wierd way that in no way means he was more successful in the 2007-2010 quad than in any previous quadrennium.

I've worried that he would squeeze the vitality out of Mirai, so I'm glad she's at least getting some other coaches to interact with on a regular basis.

kwanette
01-20-2012, 12:52 PM
I respect Frank, but I want to be devil's advocate here. He has the OGM to show for it because the COP scale of values + penalties for underrotation conspired to artificially elevate skaters w/o reliable quads.

I'm glad Frank has an OGM. But he got it in a really wierd way that in no way means he was more successful in the 2007-2010 quad than in any previous quadrennium.

I've worried that he would squeeze the vitality out of Mirai, so I'm glad she's at least getting some other coaches to interact with on a regular basis.

No weirder than any other coach who coached a skater to an OGM.

demetriosj
01-20-2012, 01:55 PM
I respect Frank, but I want to be devil's advocate here. He has the OGM to show for it because the COP scale of values + penalties for underrotation conspired to artificially elevate skaters w/o reliable quads.

I'm glad Frank has an OGM. But he got it in a really wierd way that in no way means he was more successful in the 2007-2010 quad than in any previous quadrennium.

I've worried that he would squeeze the vitality out of Mirai, so I'm glad she's at least getting some other coaches to interact with on a regular basis.

COP stinks........but I diverge.........

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Frank allegedly tell MK to "look in the mirror" when she was having a rough patch landing jumps when she was young? (Inferring to her that she was overweight?) I realize that he's legendary and has political pull with the judges, etc., but that's just wrong- and not proper, competent advice for a young skater having problems with jumps.

Jammers
01-20-2012, 02:40 PM
Everyone that is saying that Mirai needs to get rid of FC and go to someone not as tough is forgetting that Mirai will walk all over another coach who isn't tough on her. She has issues working hard to begin with and has even admitted to being lazy at times. That was her problem to begin with before she went to Frank. She needs a tough taskmaster not someone who will give in.

Sylvia
01-20-2012, 02:45 PM
She has issues working hard to begin with and has even admitted to being lazy at times.
The two are not the same thing.

berthesghost
01-20-2012, 02:53 PM
I love how everyone convieniently forgets that mirai was also a hot mess with charlene. Sometimes I wish she would leave frank so that once she's just as big a hot mess with the new one as she was with Charlene and frank, all of the frank blame will subside a little.

Louis
01-20-2012, 03:29 PM
I love how everyone convieniently forgets that mirai was also a hot mess with charlene.

An even hotter mess :lol:. I don't think I've ever seen anything quite like Cleveland Nationals where she was bawling her eyes before she skated. At the elite level, it's almost unbelievable. You don't expect that in pre-preliminary, much less senior.

Charlene also seemed complicit in allowing Mirai to constantly change her programs -- jumps would be in one minute, out the next, different from competition to competition. At least under Frank she has mostly skated the same programs from competition to competition.

It's really too bad Sasha Cohen never went to Frank Carroll. His skaters develop strength and muscle memory that in many cases overcomes their head, nerves, etc. And unlike, say, Richard Callaghan, he doesn't seem to "break" students by doing it.

haribobo
01-20-2012, 03:30 PM
Everyone that is saying that Mirai needs to get rid of FC and go to someone not as tough is forgetting that Mirai will walk all over another coach who isn't tough on her. She has issues working hard to begin with and has even admitted to being lazy at times. That was her problem to begin with before she went to Frank. She needs a tough taskmaster not someone who will give in.

:rolleyes: :blah::mad: I'm so tired of hearing this "Mirai is lazy/Mirai needs to be whipped into shape/Mirai can't be trusted." People hear or read one interview and think they are experts on the situation. I guess this is why they made the block function...here I go using it!

As for the Charlene vs. Frank thing- those are two out of a massive sea of coaches. There's other choices out there besides those two who all have different coaching styles that could work for a skater. Also, a 15 or 16 year old hot mess Mirai doesn't mean she's going to be a hot mess at age 18 also. People change, learn, gain confidence, grow up. It is possible to utilize the lessons you've learned under one coach while physically being coached by someone else. Not that its a guarantee for success to change coaches, but I think its funny to act as if nobody else but Frank is qualified to handle this supposed mentalcase that everyone makes her out to be. Whatever her shortcomings, Mirai has achieved more in her 4 years as a senior than most skaters achieve in a lifetime.

If Yasmin Siraj medals at Nationals, I expect more skaters to be interested in Mark and Peter again. If Angela Wang medals, then we'll see renewed interest in Krall, Champion, and Shipstad. An Alissa win would mean more excitement for Yuka and Jason. All of these coaches are good, its just a matter of hitting the right mixture of training, lack of injuries, and feeling ON that day. A good result at Nationals doesn't necessarily mean Frank is the best coach for her and a bad one doesn't necessarily mean the opposite- there's a complexity of variables going on that only the skater and those close to them can assess. Only Mirai and her family know or can at least make a good guess if Frank is the best person to help her achieve her goals.

RD
01-20-2012, 03:35 PM
It's really too bad Sasha Cohen never went to Frank Carroll.

Something in me thinks that pairing wouldn't have worked for various reasons...

berthesghost
01-20-2012, 03:40 PM
Something in me thinks that pairing wouldn't have worked for various reasons...
I miss :TT1: era Sasha. Her sl lp at Campbell's and her r&j ex were the only two programs she did that made me sit up and take notice.

Nomad
01-20-2012, 03:59 PM
I miss :TT1: era Sasha. Her sl lp at Campbell's and her r&j ex were the only two programs she did that made me sit up and take notice.

I wish Cohen had stayed with TAT. Oh, well.

PDilemma
01-20-2012, 04:29 PM
No weirder than any other coach who coached a skater to an OGM.



A lot less weird than Robin Wagner's. :slinkaway

gkelly
01-20-2012, 04:55 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Frank allegedly tell MK to "look in the mirror" when she was having a rough patch landing jumps when she was young? (Inferring to her that she was overweight?)

I don't know the context of that quote offhand. But when I hear "Look in the mirror" I interpret it to mean "Look to your own behavior and take responsibility for your own results -- don't blame outside forces" -- NOT "you're overweight."

I.e., "look in the mirror" means "look at yourself."