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View Full Version : What's Love got to do with it?! Tennis 2012



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elka_sk8
06-28-2012, 03:49 AM
Shhh don't jinx her. ;) Would love to see Aga go far but considering she lost out early in her last two tournaments, I'm happy to see her string a couple of good wins together- hopefully she can continue. No unforced errors in today's match? Unbelievable! :eek:

Loves_Shizuka
06-28-2012, 10:38 AM
I would be reluctant to call Stosur or Li "fluke" GS champions, mainly because they've both been in another GS final (at a different GS at that) and clearly belong near the top of the game. I don't believe that doing something (just) once naturally reduces it to a fluke. If anyone was a fluke champion it was Myskina, who won RG in 04, but never even reached a GS semi at any other time. She had 5 losing QF appearances other than that win (and only 2 of those QF came after her French title) and two first round exits at RG after her win in 04. And yet I wouldn't call her a fluke either, simply because I think it's rude to reduce someone achieving something so great in such a way.

The thing with Li and Stosur is that they don't have a real champions mentality ala Serena and Maria. Which really, is no great shame, because Sharapova and Williams are exceptional examples of mental strength. Not everyone can be like them - otherwise they wouldn't be exceptional. lol. I think both suffer terribly from nerves and both have found it difficult to handle the pressure and expectation placed upon on ANY GS champion. Factor in the fact that both their victories were particularly significant given that a) no Chinese woman has ever got close to achieving what Na did and that b) Stosur's win was huge in Australia because they've had such a drought of champions. You also look at Myskina, who was the first for her country too. I know for Na in particular, the scrutiny she faces back in China is immense - that can't be easy to deal with. What I think it comes down to is a natural, inborn competitiveness, and their upbringing - Serena and Maria were bred to be champions if you will. I don't think Li, Stosur or indeed Myskina, were.

Regarding their losses yesterday. Well actually, in repsonse to a poster who said Stosur should be good on grass - I beg to differ. Just because someone has a big FH, a big serve and can slice the BH, doesn't automatically mean they can win on grass. Look at Isner - biggest serve in mens tennis - can't get past the 2nd round of this thing.

Alot depends on the technical mechanics. Stosur's game is dependant on a big (and very good) kick serve and the spin she injects into her groundtrokes. She runs around the BH to hit her FH with heavy spin and has a very big shoulder rotation. Grass doesn't give her the time to do this. Her FH grip is far more suited to claycourts (again there was a poster before claiming Sam wasn't very good on red clay - I don't know where that came from) because it gives her time, and the surface injects her spin so much more potently than it does on grass. On grass her serve doesn't have the vicious kick it does on clay simply because it bounces lower and more quickly. Her weapons are nullified because her game doesn't really fit the surface.

If you look at past champions, they all hit a flat ball and have fairly straight-forward technique - Venus, Serena, Petra, Maria, Lindsay. The exception is Mauresmo, but she was always a versatile, all-court player - far moreso than Sam IMO.

Li's loss is more disappointing (especially to me a big fan) for she has a potentially great game for grass - she's athletic, has neat technique and hits a suitable ball. She's won a title on grass, been in another final, lost a very close Wimbledon QF to Serena two years ago, and a close one to Lisicki last year, who went onto the semi's and is a grass-courter. She has the credentials and potential. Factor in that she beat Cirstea just a few weeks ago, for the loss of three games, and this loss is disappointing. I just don't hink she's handling her new found fame and the expectations that go along with it, very well. She can't have been expecting it really - ten years ago she wasn't even playing pro tennis. Two years she was one of those dangerous floaters, always around the 15 mark, but who never seemed likely to go that extra step. Now she has, I think it's all come as shock. I'd imagine it takes time to adjust to your life changing overnight :lol:

topaz
06-28-2012, 02:40 PM
@Loves_Shizuka. I still disagree :)



Regarding their losses yesterday. Well actually, in repsonse to a poster who said Stosur should be good on grass - I beg to differ. Just because someone has a big FH, a big serve and can slice the BH, doesn't automatically mean they can win on grass. Look at Isner - biggest serve in mens tennis - can't get past the 2nd round of this thing.

Well it worked for Serena, Lindsay, Amelie and Graf.

Stosur should be winning over 80% of the points with her serve. Her type of serve can be killer on the surface. Granted she has a big spring on her groundstroke but if she wanted to and worked at it she can shorten her backswing. Slice BH is a huge stroke for a player to have on this surface. The champions you mentioned had a excellent top-spin BH which help alot on grass. However, one of the reason's Venus did well because of decision to volley on this surface.

Stosur is very good double player and volleys well. Why she doesn't volley more on grass and other surfaces is mind bloggling.

I agree Stosur has confidence issues but she should still be getting at least to the quarters of wimbledon.

Lorac
06-28-2012, 02:41 PM
Sharapova through - with a bit of a struggle agianst Pironkova. Her serve started to go a bit wonky in that 2nd set but she managed to get herself righted - taking the 3rd set to love. Serena also won - she is looking good at the moment.

And the man who took a set of Fed in Paris after being a lucky loser is doing OK here as well - Goffin is through to the 3rd round. Not bad for someone who no one had heard off 6 weeks ago :lol:

So now we've get Murray vs Karlovic. Murray should win it but that serve could cause him some problems along with a decent forehand.

ETA: And Murray is broken 1st game!!!

oleada
06-28-2012, 02:50 PM
Loves_Shizuka, I agree with everything you've said.

Falla wins another 5 setter vs Mahut :)

topaz
06-28-2012, 04:36 PM
Italian women look to be having another good slam.

Errani, Vinci and Frankie S both through to round 3. I watched Frankie's match online, I simply adore her game. Her variety of shots is maybe the best on the tour. Ahhh, if Frankie was just 5 inches talller.....

topaz
06-28-2012, 04:39 PM
American Brian Baker through to the 3rd round. What a wonderful story he is.

Loves_Shizuka
06-28-2012, 05:08 PM
:cheer2: :cheer2: Fabulous win for Mirjana Lucic, the former teenage phenom from Croatia who went through hell with an abusive father, but came back to to the tour a few years ago. She just beat Marion Bartoli 6-4 6-3 - one of her best wins in YEARS. Congrats!



Well it worked for Serena, Lindsay, Amelie and Graf.

:confused: Yes, it did. And it hasn't for countless others. Stosur is not as talented as the four you mention IMO. Like I say, it's not just having a big serve or the like. It's what you do with it. Stosur likes high bounces, spin and time. She is restricted by the grass in regards to all these.


Stosur is very good double player and volleys well. Why she doesn't volley more on grass and other surfaces is mind bloggling.

I'd hazard a guess she doesn't enjoy volleying all that much. Besides she hasn't played top doubles in years, and I'd suggest she isn't as good as she was up at net.


I agree Stosur has confidence issues but she should still be getting at least to the quarters of wimbledon.

I'll agree with this.

ioana
06-28-2012, 05:24 PM
#11 seed Li Na goes down in two sets. 3-6, 4-6.

S. Cirstea having a fantastic summer so far. I'm convinced Na and Stosur's GS wins were a fluke. Both of these players should be dominating on grass.


Stosur also went out to Cirstea at the Australian open. I just wish Sorana wouldn't be such a big headcase. She has a good enough enough game to be a top 10 player (forehand :swoon:), but she's always had trouble staying focused after a big win. Eh well, maybe she'll prove me wrong one of these days.

Loves_Shizuka
06-28-2012, 05:29 PM
^when Cirstea is "on" she's a joy to watch. I'm afraid I think her problem might be her ... erm... tennis I.Q

I really like her though, and hope she can maintain this form.

topaz
06-28-2012, 06:10 PM
:confused: Yes, it did. And it hasn't for countless others. Stosur is not as talented as the four you mention IMO. Like I say, it's not just having a big serve or the like. It's what you do with it. Stosur likes high bounces, spin and time. She is restricted by the grass in regards to all these.



I'd hazard a guess she doesn't enjoy volleying all that much. Besides she hasn't played top doubles in years, and I'd suggest she isn't as good as she was up at net.

The people I mentioned were are all champions and I beg to differ in regards to Davenport was not that great of a returner, she is taller than Sam S, lacked the movement of Venus but Davenport knew she had to play grass court tennis to do well here.

Serena has said that she does not like playing on grass for the reasons you mentioned. Davenport didn't like playing on grass either. Davenport had the worst movement of the any of champions in the last 20 years, except maybe for Kvitova.

Well according to folks like Renee Stubbs, Chris Evert and Martina N; Stosur has a very good net game and volleys very well. However, for some reason her and coach don't want to exercise her strengths in these areas on the court and in more matches. Stosur may not play any or very few double tourneys but I hope the heck her and coach practice volleys. Most top players work on volleying in practice especially if they know they know they are going to playing on grass or a surface that rewards the more aggressive player. I'm highly doubt that her skill set in volleying has been diminished so much that she's no good at it anymore.

Lorac
06-28-2012, 06:43 PM
Loving how Ward is in the 5th against Fish - this match could go either way!! The LTA should be ashamed they did not give Ward a wild card to the Olympics - he is such a fighter and deserved the chance IMHO.

Loves_Shizuka
06-28-2012, 06:58 PM
^hmm...I personally thought the result was "never in doubt".

I'm enjoying Lukas Rosol rather alot - enough to actually withstand a Nadal match :eek:

miffy
06-28-2012, 07:00 PM
Loving how Ward is in the 5th against Fish - this match could go either way!! The LTA should be ashamed they did not give Ward a wild card to the Olympics - he is such a fighter and deserved the chance IMHO.

It wasn't up to them was it?! :eek:

oleada
06-28-2012, 07:18 PM
Nadal's been less than impressive so far...Rosol playing very well, though.