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Vagabond
01-06-2012, 06:32 PM
Please tell me that Nicole Bobek was not still in diapers in 1990. :scream:

briancoogaert
01-06-2012, 06:43 PM
Please tell me that Nicole Bobek was not still in diapers in 1990. :scream:
LOL
Nicole Bobek in 1990 : http://youtu.be/vYTcgbmksvs?t=14s
So funny to imagine her in diapers !!!!

Vash01
01-06-2012, 07:25 PM
Nicole Bobek (position)

Michelle Kwan (edge)


Sasha Cohen (flexibility)

Dorothy Hamill (simple, perfect position)

l'etoile
01-06-2012, 08:13 PM
Yuna may not be the best for line perse, but when it comes to pure speed, effortless edge change and ice coverage, she's one of the best ones.
2007-2008 free skate - Miss Saigon (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=EDeCxLlUpZI#t=144s) Just look at her skirt ruffling like crazy!
With just one push, she skids across from one end to another end of the rink. In the following clip, Yuna almost hit the board but she avoided that controlling her speed, even gaining more of it.
2008-2009 short program - Danse Macabre (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=7jEe7vzS0Sg#t=95s)

kwanatic
01-06-2012, 08:19 PM
Phenomenal ice coverage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rG1VhaDnUhQ&t=2m30s)

Irina's coverage was good, but it's not like she held the position across the ice. I'm more impressed when the position is sustained as it moves across the ice without having to drop the position, stroke a few times and then do the position again...

I agree with the majority: Kwan reigns supreme (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=44ylTuYn4J0#t=160s) in the spiral. The power she had with that move is amazing! The strength of the edge, how effortlessly she's able to go from a deep inside edge to an outside edge, the steadiness of the free leg (no wobbling), the extension and back position, the speed, the ice coverage and the way she used it in her programs...simply incredible. It is her signature move and is really the iconic move in figure skating.

Sasha's was wonderful as well. The 180 degree split and toe point (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=W5q87V6ztVA#t=198s) was gorgeous; however, she never really got the hang of the COE spiral--she often had to put her foot down to change her edge or would wobble quite a bit. She usually executed the move on the flat of the blade but it was still lovely. In terms of other spirals, Sasha's fan spiral to skid move (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=sBLujpeQQC8#t=161s) is a favorite of mine.

Mao has a number of lovely spirals. I think she has one of the best fan spirals (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=gki8u91dYEg#t=111s)in the world: the extension is gorgeous and the lean on the edge is amazing. Her classic position is lovely, though she tends to drop her back a little too much at times.

Mirai's spiral (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ktvvr7OPQIw#t=150s) has lovely lines and wonderful extension, though it's not as fast or powerful.

Yu-Na has great speed and coverage on her spiral but her position (turnout and hip position) is pretty mediocre...

Caroline Zhang had very lovely spiral positions (classic, catchfoot, Charlotte). Her speed and depth of edge wasn't all that great, but she had good control in her COE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=m-UakZpskW8#t=153s). Plus that backwards extension move (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-UgCjEyA4Jk#t=162s) was awesome!

Sarah Hughes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=AM5C1ecFCKE#t=162s) had a nice spiral in terms of extension. Emily Hughes had good extension but I never liked her spiral b/c her forehead was six inches from the ice. :rolleyes: Okay, I'm exaggerating but she dropped her back (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=6iVgfqeDIHI#t=76s) way too far down...

pollyanna
01-06-2012, 08:23 PM
Please tell me that Nicole Bobek was not still in diapers in 1990. :scream:

:lol: Figure of speech. :lol: No, not in 1990. But Katherine was performing as a pro skater as early as 1980 when she was 11 years old. Her early spirals were more like Bobek's - as she got older, the split got better. Nicole may not have still been in diapers, but she was wee.

IceAlisa
01-06-2012, 08:23 PM
My favorite urban myth in skating is still alive I see: Cohen's spiral on a flat. How could she travel in a curve as I've seen her do, if she wasn't on an edge, I wonder. Magic!

Her OE was excellent but her IE was not as deep as Kwan's.

gkelly
01-06-2012, 08:26 PM
Irina's coverage was good, but it's not like she held the position across the ice. I'm more impressed when the position is sustained as it moves across the ice without having to drop the position, stroke a few times and then do the position again...

Huh? Got an example of more ice coverage with fewer strokes over three positions?

Look especially at the second two spiral positions, which did not have any strokes between them, just a three turn.

kwanatic
01-06-2012, 08:41 PM
My favorite urban myth in skating is still alive I see: Cohen's spiral on a flat. How could she travel in a curve as I've seen her do, if she wasn't on an edge, I wonder. Magic!

If you look at the clip I posted you can see that she travels at an angle, but essentially straight across the ice, on the flat of her blade, until she leans to a slight outside edge. That's how most of her spirals were when she started.

Later, she'd do an outside edge spiral, change direction, and then do an inside edge spiral (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=UPG77iWPEyA#t=117s)but (as I said) never quite got the hang COE portion of it.

IceAlisa
01-06-2012, 08:43 PM
I've seen her COE live, and yes, she had the hang of it. The judges thought so too. ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suyKb3-JWyQ&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PL229A442821C4A629

skatingfan5
01-06-2012, 08:43 PM
My favorite urban myth in skating is still alive I see: Cohen's spiral on a flat. How could she travel in a curve as I've seen her do, if she wasn't on an edge, I wonder. Magic!Her edges got much deeper as her career progressed -- the only "spiral" of hers that really was on a flat was her "Sasha curl" (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2407/2180896381_6843cf9a3b.jpg) which usually just progressed in a straight line down center ice -- gorgeous position which demonstrated her great flexibility.
Her OE was excellent but her IE was not as deep as Kwan's.Yes, she did have a very good OE, but her IE was much weaker than Kwan's which sometimes seemed a bit :eek: to this non-skater. :lol:

smarts1
01-06-2012, 08:46 PM
Irina's coverage was good, but it's not like she held the position across the ice. I'm more impressed when the position is sustained as it moves across the ice without having to drop the position, stroke a few times and then do the position again...

I agree with the majority: Kwan reigns supreme (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=44ylTuYn4J0#t=160s) in the spiral. The power she had with that move is amazing! The strength of the edge, how effortlessly she's able to go from a deep inside edge to an outside edge, the steadiness of the free leg (no wobbling), the extension and back position, the speed, the ice coverage and the way she used it in her programs...simply incredible. It is her signature move and is really the iconic move in figure skating.

Sasha's was wonderful as well. The 180 degree split and toe point (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=W5q87V6ztVA#t=198s) was gorgeous; however, she never really got the hang of the COE spiral--she often had to put her foot down to change her edge or would wobble quite a bit. She usually executed the move on the flat of the blade but it was still lovely. In terms of other spirals, Sasha's fan spiral to skid move (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=sBLujpeQQC8#t=161s) is a favorite of mine.

Mao has a number of lovely spirals. I think she has one of the best fan spirals (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=gki8u91dYEg#t=111s)in the world: the extension is gorgeous and the lean on the edge is amazing. Her classic position is lovely, though she tends to drop her back a little too much at times.

Mirai's spiral (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ktvvr7OPQIw#t=150s) has lovely lines and wonderful extension, though it's not as fast or powerful.

Yu-Na has great speed and coverage on her spiral but her position (turnout and hip position) is pretty mediocre...

Caroline Zhang had very lovely spiral positions (classic, catchfoot, Charlotte). Her speed and depth of edge wasn't all that great, but she had good control in her COE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=m-UakZpskW8#t=153s). Plus that backwards extension move (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-UgCjEyA4Jk#t=162s) was awesome!

Sarah Hughes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=AM5C1ecFCKE#t=162s) had a nice spiral in terms of extension. Emily Hughes had good extension but I never liked her spiral b/c her forehead was six inches from the ice. :rolleyes: Okay, I'm exaggerating but she dropped her back (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=6iVgfqeDIHI#t=76s) way too far down...

Emily's biellman position on that deep inside curve was definitely the best of any lady skating today.

kwanatic
01-06-2012, 09:01 PM
Huh? Got an example of more ice coverage with fewer strokes over three positions?

Look especially at the second two spiral positions, which did not have any strokes between them, just a three turn.


To clarify, I'm not debating that Irina had excellent ice coverage, just that the spiral positions (especially in context of this thread/discussion) don't measure up to Kwan, Cohen, etc. in terms of difficultly. In that clip Irina has great speed and coverage but her positions were weak and she didn't sustain any position for longer than maybe two and a half seconds.

But in terms of great ice coverage with less strokes and more difficulty:

Michelle Kwan (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=bUu-zsd1hLA#t=180s) - from one end to the next with zero strokes in between, including a change of edge...all while holding the same position.

and another

Yu-Na Kim (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=o3qaPtr5Re0#t=65s) - again, from one end to the other, with zero strokes in between including a change of edge and position.

IceAlisa
01-06-2012, 09:02 PM
Her edges got much deeper as her career progressed -- the only "spiral" of hers that really was on a flat was her "Sasha curl" (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2407/2180896381_6843cf9a3b.jpg) which usually just progressed in a straight line down center ice -- gorgeous position which demonstrated her great flexibility. Yes, that's the one people point to when they wish to illustrate her flat edge on a spiral. I think this move was invented by Sasha and she chose to execute it on a flat. Other than that her spirals always traveled on a curve, sometimes a circle (usually in an exhibition). I don't understand why people keep claiming Sasha's spirals were on a flat where there's a wealth of youtube evidence to the contrary. No, her IE wasn't as deep as Kwan's but she had excellent edges and control on her spirals, something that I believe to be widely acknowledged by fans, commentators and judges.


Yes, she did have a very good OE, but her IE was much weaker than Kwan's which sometimes seemed a bit :eek: to this non-skater. :lol:

Kwan's IE was the best. It was crazy deep. Her control of the blade in general was very smooth and flowing.

falling_dance
01-06-2012, 09:02 PM
Emily Hughes had good extension but I never liked her spiral b/c her forehead was six inches from the ice. :rolleyes: Okay, I'm exaggerating but she dropped her back (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=6iVgfqeDIHI#t=76s) way too far down...

I agree that she dropped her upper body too far down, but I have to say that I'm impressed by that spiral. It's not in the Kwan/Cohen league, but she could've kept going on it if she'd wanted to, which wins big points with this viewer.

Also, Fleur (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=croOUb-gIzk&t=1m28s) Maxwell (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZhggtm1CZo&t=2m14s) certainly deserves a mention in this thread.