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That Don Guy
12-31-2011, 11:40 PM
Sorry if this is "old news," but there doesn't seem to be a search function on this forum...
Anyway, buried in the figure skating qualifying procedures for Sochi (the short version: 75% of the spots filled through the 2013 Worlds, and the remaining 25% through the 2013 Nebelhorn Trophy), are the instructions for the "team competition" for Sochi.

According to the document, there will be 10 countries (which will qualify based on the 2013-14 ISU Grand Prix events and the 2013 Worlds / Europeans / Four Continents), which enter one man, one woman, one pair, and one dance couple, each of which skate a short program (presumably separately from the non-team competitions for those disciplines); the top five teams (based on 10 for first, 9 for second, and so on) then skate a free skate/dance, and the placing points are added to the short program placing points to determine the final results.

The qualifying documents (for speed skating as well as figure skating) are available in a ZIP file here (http://isu.sportcentric.net/db//files/serve.php?id=3215). (The details on the team competition are in an appendix near the end.)

BigB08822
12-31-2011, 11:44 PM
Glad to find out more detail. I was guessing they would just use the results of selected skaters during their normal competition. For example, if the U.S. selected Wagner, Abbott, D/W and E/L then just use their placements (or points totals) and after the last event (ladies) you can name the medalists. It might seem pointless but this would appeal to people who think figure skaters are so fragile that they can't possible skate another program or two while in Russia. I like this more, though, a separate competition. I do wonder how they will squeeze it in. Before or after individual events?

whoa
12-31-2011, 11:55 PM
Thanks for the update! I'm curious as to how this is going to work out in reality. It'll be cut from 10 nations to five to the top three? Not a fan of the idea at all, since I think the Olympic medals should go to the best individual figure skaters only, but we'll see what this is like!

FYI - I don't know if you can search through the entire FSU forum, but in Great Skate Debate (and presumably any other section), there's a search function in the upper right corner ("Search This Forum").

That Don Guy
12-31-2011, 11:56 PM
I wonder how they're going to find time to do it. Right now, the Sochi 2014 schedule has the figure skating/short track speed skating venue having events every day.

I was going to say that they would probably change the rules and just use the "individual" event performances towards the team event, but they can't, as all of the short programs have to be done before any of the free skates (since the short programs determine which five teams advance to the free skate portion).

Coco
12-31-2011, 11:59 PM
I think it might backfire to have skaters reuse their programs. A lot of casual fans don't realize that you keep the same program for multiple competitions. The ones I know who don't realize this are always disappointed when they find it out, too!

Are there even 10 countries that compete in all four disciplines at this level? (I know it's lazy to ask, but I am betting someone on this board knows the answer and can point to stats, ha ha ha.)

Sedge
01-01-2012, 12:44 AM
I wonder how they're going to find time to do it. Right now, the Sochi 2014 schedule has the figure skating/short track speed skating venue having events every day.



My understanding is that the team event takes place before the other disciplines.
You are right about the venue of Short track and FIGS being close to full ( I believe there is only 1 dark day).
They may have to resort to skating the team event before the opening ceremonies..like some of the team events in the Summer Olympics.

ChelleC
01-01-2012, 12:47 AM
Are there even 10 countries that compete in all four disciplines at this level? (I know it's lazy to ask, but I am betting someone on this board knows the answer and can point to stats, ha ha ha.)


Looking at the results from the 2011 World Championships, yes. If I counted right, I counted 10 countries with competitors in all four disciplines.

US
Russia
Japan
Germany
Canada
China
Italy
France
Great Britain
Czech Republic

Of course the number could be higher or lower by 2014.

Amy L
01-01-2012, 01:32 AM
Japan probably won't have a pair team in 2014, since it would take a total overhaul of Japanese immigration law for Mervin Tran to get citizenship in time.

What's Ondrej Hotarek's status? I know there are other Italian pair teams, but I prefer Berton/Hotarek...

caseyedwards
01-01-2012, 01:33 AM
I thought it was interesting in that there can be partial teams which I beleive could compete with just Men Pairs and Ladies and see what happens.

manhn
01-01-2012, 01:50 AM
Well, then what would stop countries from having all men, then? Someone like Kevin Reynolds would still get a way higher score in his LP than, say, Virtue/Moir.

Jammers
01-01-2012, 02:37 AM
The team competition seems to me to be joke. Can you imagine someone like Rachael Flatt winning a gold medal if she's on the US team? She will have as many Olympic Gold medals as someone like Yuna Kim. :confused:

That Don Guy
01-01-2012, 02:48 AM
Well, then what would stop countries from having all men, then? Someone like Kevin Reynolds would still get a way higher score in his LP than, say, Virtue/Moir.
Each team is allowed only one skater/pair per discipline. The team cannot have, say, four men and no one in the other three disciplines.

A team can leave one discipline out for whatever reason, although if a country that qualifies for the team competition does not qualify in each of the four "individual" disciplines (although the way the qualifying system works, this seems unlikely), the country can include a skater/pair in those disciplines just for the team competition.

galaxygirl
01-01-2012, 04:58 AM
The team competition seems to me to be joke. Can you imagine someone like Rachael Flatt winning a gold medal if she's on the US team? She will have as many Olympic Gold medals as someone like Yuna Kim. :confused:

And more than Michelle Kwan.

Vagabond
01-01-2012, 06:00 AM
Looking at the results from the 2011 World Championships, yes. If I counted right, I counted 10 countries with competitors in all four disciplines.

US
Russia
Japan
Germany
Canada
China
Italy
France
Great Britain
Czech Republic

Austria and Bulgaria did too. But their current pairs and dance couples are not going to draw in viewers. :shuffle:

I suppose Japan might be able to scrape together an Olympics-eligible pair, but I wouldn't expect them to be anywhere near as good as Takahashi and Tran.

ETA:

It appears that the ISU is planning on scapping the Exhibition in order to have enough time to stage the Team Competition.

Personally, I would rather watch Javier Fernández, Yuna Kim, Mao Asada, Daisuke Takahashi, and/or Takahiko Kozuka doing exhibition programs than watch Kristina Tremasova & Dimitar Lichev doing their Short Dance and Stina Martini & Severin Kiefer doing their Short Program.

YMMV.

Zemgirl
01-01-2012, 10:43 AM
The team competition seems to me to be joke. Can you imagine someone like Rachael Flatt winning a gold medal if she's on the US team? She will have as many Olympic Gold medals as someone like Yuna Kim. :confused:

And more than Michelle Kwan.
There are already skaters not as good as Kwan (or Kim) who have OGMs, so I don't see what the big deal is.

Several sports have the equivalent of a team competition, which means weaker athletes can win medals they likely wouldn't win competing individually: track, swimming, artistic and rhythmic gymnastics. I have no problem with skaters getting the same opportunity. While it's nice to have a gala, I think it's actually easier to justify the inclusion of a team event in the Olympics than a gala held outside the competition.

Spain now has a junior pair, so they might have a shot at fielding a team, too.