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gkelly
12-31-2011, 12:14 AM
I don't recall, but I know where to look it up: http://www.eskatefans.com/skatabase/worldladies1980.html

Kay Thomson was 7th and Manuela Ruben was 8th

Maofan7
12-31-2011, 07:52 AM
And here is Kay Thomson's LP from the Championships:-

Kay Thomson - LP (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTjYXJfH1ws)

The interesting thing about Kay Thomson is that she was one of the very few ladies skaters who regularly included a triple lutz in her programs at this time and you will see that she included one in this program.

Also Kristiina Wegelius LP (she finished 6th, having fallen from 1st to 9th overall the previous year following her FS):-

Kristiina Wegelius - LP (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZDIq6ju4G0)

And Kitty & Peter Carruthers LP from the pairs competition in which they finished 4th:-

Carruthers & Carruthers - LP (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIzUwj9qs6M)

floskate
12-31-2011, 10:48 AM
Kay was coming off the back of a strong national championship where she became the first woman to land 3z/2t in the SP. Unfortunately it didn't work out for her here but she's always fascinating to watch because of her amazing spins. She did regularly try the triple lutz but this was her ONLY triple jump. She was trying the flip in the 1984 season but I never saw her land it. I always wondered why her only triple was the lutz.

Erin
12-31-2011, 04:21 PM
This is the first time that I've actually had time to go and watch some of the performances to participate in this thread.


Wow, I'd forgotten how great Scott Hamilton could be! That was a beautifully choreographed program (despite the crazy music cuts, typical of 80s programs). To me, that's exactly how footwork should be--fast, difficult, perfectly timed with the music. Every part of that program had a meaning, as the commentator said. Fantastic!

I agree. I'd always remembered Scott's 1981-1984 programs as being somewhat interchangeable (probably because of the crazy 80s music cuts), but this one really was excellent.

I'd forgotten how flail-y Brian Orser was back in those days. He sure had crazy windmill arms! But the choreography in the first two sections of the program is very good and his footwork was also very well done. This was really the first program where Orser established himself as more than just a jumper.


Oh I do wish they hadn't made Witt change her SP costume from Europeans. As kitsch and campy as it seems now, she really was trying new stuff back then.

The Euros costume was cool, but I don't think it really had anything to do with the program (not that the Worlds one did either). The Youtube comments under the Worlds program describe her as being dressed as Mozart, but I think there was about 5 seconds of Mozart music in there. Even by 80s standards, that was a lot of music cuts. Good old Hooked on Classics...


Other than Barnum, the only thing I ever think of when watching this championships is teh pairs result. To this day I still would give it to Baess & Thierbach over V&V whose sbs 3t's seem to have bedazzled the judges enough to overlook the other major errors.

I haven't gotten around to the pairs competition yet, but when I first watched this competition, my inclination would have been to have V&V completely off the podium. I'm curious to see if my opinion stays the same on this viewing.


Roz always left me cold. I respect her skating basics, but she always looked like the landing of any triples was a chore. Her speed, straight back and great basics yet not entirely secure jumps make me think of her as an American version of Lepisto.

I never liked Roz as a pro skater, but I do have an appreciation for her amateur skating. Maybe it's because she's so lovely compared to Witt, Vodorezova, Leistner (especially).


Kay was coming off the back of a strong national championship where she became the first woman to land 3z/2t in the SP. Unfortunately it didn't work out for her here but she's always fascinating to watch because of her amazing spins. She did regularly try the triple lutz but this was her ONLY triple jump. She was trying the flip in the 1984 season but I never saw her land it. I always wondered why her only triple was the lutz.

Kay's jumping technique was pretty bad...for me, the big mystery is not why she couldn't land the other triples, but how on earth she landed the triple lutz. Loved her spins, though.

Dave of the North
12-31-2011, 11:37 PM
IIRC, Kay Thomson had had a vertebrae removed from her back (or one was missing?) which is why she could get into those amazing positions in her spins. I remember that, given the jumbled standings after the SP, she could have won the whole thing (at least according to Johnny Esau...:P)

olympic
01-01-2012, 02:43 PM
Witt won the SP here. What happened to Roz? I don't see her video posted, but since she wasn't leading Witt, I assume she had a problem of some sort [deduction]

Erin
01-01-2012, 04:56 PM
She was trying the flip in the 1984 season but I never saw her land it. I always wondered why her only triple was the lutz.

I hadn't watched Kay's free skate when I responded previously, but Kay also attempted the flip at 1983 Worlds in the skate linked above and stood up on it, but it was very badly cheated and had a turn out.


I haven't gotten around to the pairs competition yet, but when I first watched this competition, my inclination would have been to have V&V completely off the podium. I'm curious to see if my opinion stays the same on this viewing.

So I watched it yesterday and I think I was a bit too harsh, I still would have had V&V ahead of the Carrutherses (and V&V's lead after the SP would have kept them on the podium anyway). But I definitely agree V&V should have been behind Baess & Thierbach. The tougher decision is what to do with Underhill & Martini. It was a very tough competition to judge because there wasn't one pair who had everything. Underhill & Martini were the only team with a cohesive, well-choreographed program and had the best quality death spirals. Lifts and throws were also very high quality but not the most difficult. And of course, side by side jumps were the weakest amongst the top 3. Baess & Thierbach had the most difficult throws that were well-executed, side by side double axels but not triple toes, nice lines but not spectacular, program was all right but nothing memorable. Valova & Vassiliev had the best jumps, same throw difficulty as Underhill & Martini with lower quality, program was a hodgepodge mishmash but lots of interesting transitions. I think I would have it B&T, U&M, V&V...but I could also see good cases for U&M, B&T, V&V or B&T, V&V, U&M.

On a totally different topic, one thing I found interesting was that while the Zayak rule had been enacted the previous summer, not everyone was following it, nor did the judges seem to care, as both Sumners and Hamilton had violations - Sumners had two triple sals, neither in combination, and Hamilton did three triple toes. You would think that everyone would be particularly sensitive with the new rule just in, but apparently not.

floskate
01-01-2012, 05:24 PM
I hadn't watched Kay's free skate when I responded previously, but Kay also attempted the flip at 1983 Worlds in the skate linked above and stood up on it, but it was very badly cheated and had a turn out.

Yes you're right she did and that's probably the best attempt I saw her do, but it still wasn't landed. Her lutz was UR too.



On a totally different topic, one thing I found interesting was that while the Zayak rule had been enacted the previous summer, not everyone was following it, nor did the judges seem to care, as both Sumners and Hamilton had violations - Sumners had two triple sals, neither in combination, and Hamilton did three triple toes. You would think that everyone would be particularly sensitive with the new rule just in, but apparently not.

I don't know why Sumners did that. Many skaters continued to do three triple toes and were getting away with it providing one was a toe walley. At that time they were still classed as separate jumps. The toe walley is supposed to take off from an RBI edge rather than the RBO of the toe loop. Most skaters still took off from RBO though so in the mid-1980's the ISU issued a clarification that they would now regard toe loop and toe walley as one and the same jump. I remember reading an article in one of the skating magazines at the time on the matter whihc seemed to suggest that the reasoning behind the decision was that most skaters couldn't do a clean toe walley. Ironically enough, IIRC one of the few skaters who could do a clean 3 toe walley was Elaine Zayak!

skatesindreams
01-01-2012, 06:01 PM
It's a pity that the judges seemingly did everything they could to marginalize Elaine during her career.
I'm glad that she won one World Championship, at least.

orbitz
01-01-2012, 06:05 PM
It's a pity that the judges seemingly did everything they could to marginalize Elaine during her career.
I'm glad that she won one World Championship, at least.

I think this was only true in 84. Elaine did well nationally and internationally in 80-82.

skatesindreams
01-01-2012, 06:32 PM
These two articles about Elaine/Rosalynn are very interesting:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1126206/index.htm
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1120506/index.htm

falling_dance
01-01-2012, 07:01 PM
I can see what Ottum and many others protested about the times, those aspects of the skating world and US society at large that ranged from pettily annoying to mind-bendingly brutal (of course, it's not like they're all safely in the past, either) but I'm only on the second page of his article and it's already too difficult for me not to be even more of a Sumners uber in retrospect:


Because figure skating is a sport with one foot firmly planted in show business, there's always grave and nervous concern among the competitors over appearance; everybody tries to achieve some sort of magic aura that will dazzle those who watch. Clearly, too much stress is placed on what one wears, on how one stands, how one's hair looks, on how to position one's arms and hands. The men included. Crazily, none of these things have anything to do with how one does on the ice. [emphasis mine]

Coco
01-01-2012, 09:00 PM
Those articles made me nostalgic for soooooo much. I miss in depth articles like that, on athletes who aren't protected by oodles of media training or high power agents. Fun reading!

judgejudy27
01-01-2012, 09:25 PM
Sad that Elaine Zayak had to drop out. She'd gained some weight, but still had all her triples (including the loop). As the defending world champion, she very well may have medalled, paving a way to a better Olympic finish than what she got.

Zayak was 11th after figures so no way she would have medaled. Witt came 1st in the SP and did a clean LP with far more jump content than Sumners and still was placed only a close 2nd behind Sumners in the LP. Elaine couldnt have done better than this and that still wasnt enough for Witt to climb from 8th to a medal.

floskate
01-01-2012, 10:48 PM
Zayak's results were always a lottery based on what foot the figures were drawn on. If they were on her injured foot she just did not have the control she could otherwise get from her other foot. Case in point her figures placements for Worlds in 1982 where she was 4th.