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Spazactaz
12-25-2011, 03:51 PM
Favorite Kwan layback position:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=wazOhkRuySI#t=213s

smarts1
12-25-2011, 04:08 PM
Don't the American ladies generally have the prettiest laybacks? I mean everyone on here has given links to laybacks from the US ladies (minus Miki). Is there any non-US skater with a good layback position? (I think the only person I can think of was Fumie back in 02 and 03, before she changed it. Same for Miki, but then again, she barely got any arch in her layback, and now it's the most hideous thing ever).

bardtoob
12-25-2011, 04:40 PM
The original ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDLVM-Hjzwc

gkelly
12-25-2011, 06:15 PM
There's a long tradition of not penalizing ladies for bad layback spins.

Also, technically IIRC the degree of back bend is less a mistake than the lack of turnout at the hip.

The short program requirement has always been "layback or sideways-leaning spin" in recognition of the fact that some skaters find it easier (or more choreographically appropriate) to lean sideways than straight backward. So in that sense choosing to lean sideways instead of straight back is not a mistake.

There's nothing in the rules that I know of about the free leg position, one way or another. There's a lot in Dick Button's commentary about what he personally preferred to see, and that has had a lot of influence on the way America coaches encouraged skaters do position their laybacks and on the amount of importance they put on it . . . and probably some influence on how American judges judge them.

Personally, I love a beautiful classic layback, but I also love beautiful or expressive laybacks in other positions -- I don't agree with Button's implication that there is a single ideal position and everything else is inferior.

But some people's bodies can make nicer-looking positions than others. All anyone can do is maximize the aesthetic impact of their own body shape.


Don't the American ladies generally have the prettiest laybacks? I mean everyone on here has given links to laybacks from the US ladies (minus Miki). Is there any non-US skater with a good layback position? (I think the only person I can think of was Fumie back in 02 and 03, before she changed it. Same for Miki, but then again, she barely got any arch in her layback, and now it's the most hideous thing ever).

Ukrainian lady with Button-approved layback position (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kj5r414mlXg)

Good arch, OK leg position from Japanese skater (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGjc8wSn730)

Great spin, pretty good free lg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnoRJ8gZpZU)

smarts1
12-25-2011, 07:29 PM
All three need work on the free leg position. But I still think Natalie is a better spinner than Lucinda... Am I the only person who thinks that? And Yukina Ota. It's a shame about her jump technique.

Sasha'sSpins
12-26-2011, 04:17 AM
Don't get so defensive with the rolleyes when it come to Kwan. Geez. I'm sure she would be the first to admit that she wasn't good at everything on the ice. Yes, I'm aware that Michelle attempted the standard layback position, but IMO her back was still too straight up to be considered a clasical layback, and she soon drop back to her leg down position.

I agree.

Sasha Cohen of course has one of the best laybacks in the business:
Sasha Cohen 2004 Worlds - SP (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sI-cbt1u1uc)

Macassar88
12-26-2011, 07:53 AM
http://youtu.be/ywSCdwT0hxw?t=3m13s
Slutskaya had a nice one when she put her mind to it

floskate
12-26-2011, 12:51 PM
Of all those examples, Dorothy's is by far the best for me. Such arch in her back and wonderful speed. She was a wonderful spinner. She and Peggy have it all over the rest IMO. Nikodinov's is beautiful too but she doesn't have the arch that Peggy and Dorothy had.

skateboy
12-27-2011, 06:13 AM
I always felt Sarah Hughes had a beautiful layback spin.

bardtoob
12-27-2011, 09:09 AM
I love these layback spins.

- Dorothy Hamill (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r42MTdTTCc&feature=player_detailpage#t=169s)
- Peggy Flemming (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdPKgg8SGys&feature=player_detailpage#t=178s)
- Janet Lynn (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bDCLR1P02M&feature=player_detailpage#t=194s)

CantALoop
12-27-2011, 07:07 PM
Kyoko Ina (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39hHJQk0WcY) had an excellent classic layback position, which is even more surprising considering she was more of a pairs skater and started out skating for Japan.

nubka
12-27-2011, 09:25 PM
Don't get so defensive with the rolleyes when it come to Kwan. Geez. I'm sure she would be the first to admit that she wasn't good at everything on the ice. Yes, I'm aware that Michelle attempted the standard layback position, but IMO her back was still too straight up to be considered a clasical layback, and she soon drop back to her leg down position.

:watch: :watch: :watch:...

briancoogaert
12-28-2011, 11:09 AM
Kyoko Ina (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39hHJQk0WcY) had an excellent classic layback position, which is even more surprising considering she was more of a pairs skater and started out skating for Japan.
Not just that, I didn't remember she was so solid with triple jumps. :eek:

DBZ
12-28-2011, 11:47 AM
I know she never really attained a classic turned-out foot, but this is one time I simply don't care.

This layback is still gorgeous IMO, no matter what Dick says. :P

Lucinda Ruh - 1997 Worlds SP (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ec6hn4bEMQ&feature=youtu.be&t=1m58s)

And no woman can match the arch in Lucinda's back.

Here it's practically parallel to the ice. :eek:

Lucinda Ruh - 2000 World Pro (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yG8tfmkvGDc&feature=youtu.be&t=1m00s)

leapfrogonice
12-29-2011, 10:04 PM
Great laybacks in my opinion ... Janet Lynn, not just for her free leg position but also her awareness and use of arms which made her upper body just as much a focus as the leg lines. Sandy Lenz had a wonderful layback. Very strong free legs also achieved by Angela Nikadinov and Sarah Hughes, though they lacked the similarly balanced brilliance with their arms.

Always surprised that Michelle never really got her layback to become as masterful as the rest of her skating. It was a clever solution to have her do the "leg down" arms stretched behind her position, which ironically became a bit of a signature, and also seemed to enable her to actually increase the speed of the spin over the course of the spin, which today would be helpful to GOE I am guessing.

Another disappointing layback amongst the top ladies - Ya Na. Really a horror that broken hammer free foot. Cringeworthy.