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berthesghost
12-19-2011, 05:41 PM
This happened a lot more often during the figures era where several of the leaders after figures were expected to drop once the free skating started, and vice versa.

Vagabond
12-19-2011, 07:47 PM
This happened a lot more often during the figures era where several of the leaders after figures were expected to drop once the free skating started, and vice versa.

It happened, but to a lesser extent than one might imagine, and mostly during the period when Wegelius and Deborah Cottrill, who had a similar sharp drop in the standings, finished just behind her at 1982 Worlds, happened to skate.

Earlier, using factored placements and total points tended to favor those who were strong in the Compulsories. This is why Beatrix Schuba was able to win the 1972 Olympic Gold Medal even though she was only seventh in the Free Skate. This was true even after the introduction of the Short Program in 1973. For example, Isabelle de Navarre was first in the Compulsories at the 1976 Winter Olympics, eleventh in the Short Program (at which point she was third overall), twelfth in the Free Skate, and still finished fifth.

Had De Navarre been marked under the system that went into effect in the early 1980's, she would have had a pronounced drop in the rankings after both the Short Program and Free Skate, with a much lower final placement.

pinky166
12-19-2011, 08:17 PM
Volchkova for a few years there. Also Sebestyen pretty much her entire career. Gedevanishvilli in her junior and early senior years as well, though it's funny because now she is generally a stronger FS skater.

Vash01
12-19-2011, 11:12 PM
Berezhnaya and Sikharulidze's first World Championships.. 2nd in the SP.. and 9th in the FS I think?

IIRC they were 3rd in the SP at the 97 worlds, but under 6.0 they could have won the competition if they had skated a very good LP, so that's almost like being 1st in the SP. They did drop a LOT in the LP (4 falls total; 2 by each).

pinky166
12-19-2011, 11:36 PM
Ksenia Makarova all last season unfortunately :(. Her team always seems to pick good SPs and crappy FSs for her.

RFOS
12-19-2011, 11:44 PM
Berezhnaya and Sikharulidze's first World Championships.. 2nd in the SP.. and 9th in the FS I think?

They were 12th in the free skate and dropped to 9th overall.

Another really big drop was Fusar-Poli & Margaglio's at the 2006 Olympics. Since they hadn't competed in a long time, I didn't expect them to be 1st in the CD and expected them to drop. The degree of the drop (10th in the OD and 8th in the FD, 6th overall) was pretty much unprecedented in elite level ice dance though.

briancoogaert
12-20-2011, 12:45 PM
They were 12th in the free skate and dropped to 9th overall.

Another really big drop was Fusar-Poli & Margaglio's at the 2006 Olympics. Since they hadn't competed in a long time, I didn't expect them to be 1st in the CD and expected them to drop. The degree of the drop (10th in the OD and 8th in the FD, 6th overall) was pretty much unprecedented in elite level ice dance though.
In fact, as they should have never been in 1st after CD, that drop was more than expected ! lol

bartek
12-20-2011, 02:12 PM
In fact, as they should have never been in 1st after CD, that drop was more than expected ! lol

I'm not very knowledgeable about Ice Dance so could you tell me why they shouldn't have been first after CD? Do you think it was only due their home advantage?

briancoogaert
12-20-2011, 02:21 PM
I'm not very knowledgeable about Ice Dance so could you tell me why they shouldn't have been first after CD? Do you think it was only due their home advantage?
It has already been discussed in 2006. He is stiff, he never push. She gains speed and he only takes speed from her. I think judges put them in 1st for some suspense in the competition (after 2002 Olympics and the fact that ice dance teams were ranked the same from compulsories to Free dance). ;)

floskate
12-20-2011, 02:36 PM
It happened, but to a lesser extent than one might imagine, and mostly during the period when Wegelius and Deborah Cottrill, who had a similar sharp drop in the standings, finished just behind her at 1982 Worlds, happened to skate.

Earlier, using factored placements and total points tended to favor those who were strong in the Compulsories. This is why Beatrix Schuba was able to win the 1972 Olympic Gold Medal even though she was only seventh in the Free Skate. This was true even after the introduction of the Short Program in 1973. For example, Isabelle de Navarre was first in the Compulsories at the 1976 Winter Olympics, eleventh in the Short Program (at which point she was third overall), twelfth in the Free Skate, and still finished fifth.

Had De Navarre been marked under the system that went into effect in the early 1980's, she would have had a pronounced drop in the rankings after both the Short Program and Free Skate, with a much lower final placement.

The SP was only worth 20% of the overall mark back then and didn't have the impact it did later on when figures were devalued further and the SP gained more importance. Hence skaters were able to totally bomb the SP and still medal if they had good figures placements to start and came back well in the free skate, even in the factored placement system of the early 1980's. See Zayak in 1982, Biellmann in '81, Poetszch in '1980, heck even Janet Lynn who went 2-12-1 to win silver in Bratislava. However there were a number of figures specialists who were noticeably sub-par in freestyle who you knew were going to drop right out of contention. Wegelius obviously and as someone mentioned, Ivanova is a great example apart from her stellar 1984-85 season where she really skated very well throughout at the 1985 Europeans (which she really should have won) and Worlds. Richard Zander is another who was always around the top after figures but disappeared without a trace afterwards.

Vagabond
12-20-2011, 02:49 PM
I wouldn't call finishing second in the SP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1981_World_Figure_Skating_Championships#Ladies), as Biellmann did in '81, "totally bombing" it, especially when she was only fourth in the Compulsories. :shuffle:

floskate
12-20-2011, 03:03 PM
I wouldn't call finishing second in the SP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1981_World_Figure_Skating_Championships#Ladies), as Biellmann did in '81, "totally bombing" it, especially when she was only fourth in the Compulsories. :shuffle:

Sorry I should have clarified that she was very lucky to be 2nd in the SP when she popped her combo and most did not skate up to par. She was also lucky that Zayak fell in the SP in Hartford and that Witt, who won the SP was miles back in figures. Biellmann was the rightful winner overall but her SP was not stellar by any means. But I agree not the best example I could have come up with :lol: