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View Full Version : Virtue/Moir Thread #13 (mach two): S'Wonderful



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Lissa
01-28-2012, 08:21 PM
Russiam commenators all season during GP talking about V-M not so good anymore and they didnt like FD. This commentator said he like W-P FD a lot this season. Maybe thats why he check CN results and told us during break at ECh.
He taled anout Chans 300 point a lot too



LOL of course the Russians won't like T&S, they ruined the Russian dominance in Ice Dance, no Russian team can come close to them for talent, that does not surprise me at all.

Also they obviously don't know what they are talking about since T&S did not lose the SD so they clearly are not paying attention :rolleyes:

marbri
01-28-2012, 08:28 PM
LOL of course the Russians won't like T&S, they ruined the Russian dominance in Ice Dance, no Russian team can come close to them for talent, that does not surprise me at all.

Also they obviously don't know what they are talking about since T&S did not lose the SD so they clearly are not paying attention :rolleyes:

Russian commentators and other Russians involved in skating have been VERY complimentary of Tessa and Scott so your comment is :rolleyes:. There is a lot to be said for momentum in ice dance and right now it is with Davis and White.

sequins
01-28-2012, 08:42 PM
Al the negativity is so :confused: to me. We're their fans people come on:cheer2: The seasons not over and their SD up until the GPF was their strong point. They fell there and Canadians was their worst performance of the year, in ages in fact. So I'm not throwing in the towel because the Shibs got some whacked out score at U.S. Nats. nor am I getting bent out of shape at Russian commentators who are trying to plant the seeds for Sochi. At worst & barring disaster I still see V&M second at Worlds and in close contention.

I can't believe what's happened in the span of a month. I sure hope 4CC is better or I can't imagine what it'll be like. It can all be turned around and I choose to believe it will but at this point I feel exhausted (and I'm not even competing:lol:)I almost wish it was over, when all I want is to enjoy them skate.

marbri
01-28-2012, 08:44 PM
I hope 4CC is good for them, their chance to show the joy we saw pre-GPF.

Rafter
01-28-2012, 08:46 PM
My final thoughts on the situation goes back to a conversation Tracy and Kurt had after an event but before the anticipated head to head at the GPF. One comment from Tracy stuck with me, she said sometimes it comes down to a decision made months ago (the choice of FD). The general thought was V&M had the stronger SD but the FD could come down to that decision made months earlier (the music and theme for the FD)

I really think D&W have their "masterpiece" this season. The music and concept is perfect for them and most importantly it satisfies instantly. It accentuates their speed, invites the audience to clap along, the phrasing perfect for a FD. Regardless of my personal preferences in ice dance V&Mīs FD is a grower but I don't think there is enough time or enough to do with the music and theme to turn things around. Particularly in light of all the time wasted redoing their SD.:confused: I can intellectually explain why I think it should score better in some areas but the reality is in the heat of the moment, the heat of competition and especially if D&W skate last I really believe it's a winner for them. I don't consider that doom and gloom, just coming to terms with reality.

I also wonder about the future. I think Igor and Marina are now in the same situation they were when D&W overtook B&A and when B&A overtook L&A. Nothing to do with what child they love more but the reality is you have to serve two teams who want the same spot on the podium, one to retain and one to regain. When V&M came off the GPF they wanted changes to their programs, to find areas to pick up a point here and there. But the points they want to pick up are meant to give them an advantage over D&W. But they also have to serve D&W who will want something new to counteract the advantage they in theory gave to V&M. It's impossible to fully satisfy both teams, impossible. They can say all things are equal and it's up to the skaters to skate well but that isn't reality. It has clearly served them well up until 2010, the friendly rivalry where the order was still accepted but now it's impossible to gain that edge when you skate with your main rivals and the minute you gain "improvements" they will rightfully be asking for the same.

This is a great post. I do think that Virtue & Moir, both individually and together, are superior skaters and dancers than Davis & White, but a lot of times it comes down to program and music choice. I think unfortunately V&M's SD doesn't have a lot of "wow" factor like their FD last year did, and I think Funny Face was a mistake. This music is not that well-known, especially to Euro judges and it's very hard to compete with Die Fledermaus. Die Fledermaus is a lot more accessible than FF and it really carries D&W and the audience (and therefore judges).

Now their choosing Funny Face I blame on Marina. Sure Tessa brought it to the table 5 years ago or whatever, but Marina is the one who suggested it this year and I think any coach with their best interests at heart would have just said NO to it. If Tessa wants to be Audrey Hepburn, let her be it in an exhibition number. There is so much GREAT music out there, why FF?

I agree that V&M are in the same situation B&A were in a few years ago.

Rafter
01-28-2012, 08:47 PM
I mean maybe V-M let there coaches know they will retier after this season of will move to another coaches?
Shibs have the same SD, wish is V-M SD, but change the last music part.

I don't think there's anyway if V&M were considering a coaching move that they would tell Marina & Igor at this point of the season.

Rafter
01-28-2012, 08:51 PM
I want to add some thoughts.
I must tell, that during ECh ice dance stream on russian TV,commentator said: " Did you know, V-M lost W-P at Nationasl in SD and they are very close with W-P in FD. Maybe this is Krylova coahing talent". So i think SC did what they want - they show V-M are not at the high level, then others.

Just a theory but maybe it's possible that Skate Canada has conceded that V&M won't win worlds this year and that they are politiking for W&P for world bronze. Won't happen though with Worlds in France.



Then Zhulin words about Tobais-Stagnionas FD: " They didnt made any linking steps and transitions/ This FD (choreo) could be made during 30 munits. They made elements very good, but what about dance?"
Krylova sad the main competitiors of her teams is I-K.
Kustarova said - all talking V-M time is gone, but judges didnt show this yet.


What does Zhulin's comment about Tobias & Stag have to do with V&M? :confused:

As for Kustarova, this just screams of politics to me. I think she should focus more on Bobrova's hideous posture and B&S's weak programs and less on the status of Virtue & Moir. I think it's quite clear she wants V&M out of the picture in the hopes it will help get her team on the podium in Sochi.

Rafter
01-28-2012, 08:54 PM
It's actually scary how similar it is when you turn the music off.

Isn't it though?!

One more think to like about Camerlengo & Krylova. Their teams all have unique looks and programs.

sliver98
01-28-2012, 09:06 PM
Rafter i don`t think it really matters if worlds are in France if P&B don`t hit their levels and weaver and poje do they won`t be on the podium nice or no nice. Their TES was very weak for their FD at europeans.

HSGP21
01-28-2012, 09:48 PM
Ha! I just turned off the sound, and wow- compositionally, they really are the same. BUT- Maia and Alex are SIBLINGS skating a latin dance... Tessa and Scott are very clearly NOT siblings and should be rocking the LATIN part of this dance! It is ice DANCE, after all.. if the shibutanis come anywhere close to Tessa and Scott add me to the list of those who are afraid for the future of ice dancing.

They may not have momentum on their side, but they could have the surprise that Marina was talking about for D/W on their side... hopefully they are just saving that extra umph for worlds, not nationals

pani
01-28-2012, 09:49 PM
Isn't it though?!

One more think to like about Camerlengo & Krylova. Their teams all have unique looks and programs.

I disagree. Habbel start looking a lot like Weaver. And i dont like there SD, only in juniors i like team, who won Junir USA title this year ;)
Honestly i like Platov work. What he made with BuklandComes is uniuqe - could you imaging what he will made with V-M?


Now their choosing Funny Face I blame on Marina. Sure Tessa brought it to the table 5 years ago or whatever, but Marina is the one who suggested it this year and I think any coach with their best interests at heart would have just said NO to it. If Tessa wants to be Audrey Hepburn, let her be it in an exhibition number. There is so much GREAT music out there, why FF?

I agree with one point- Zueva brought this idea and Tessa wish to use this music when she was (if this really was 5 years ago. With Z-S never knows truth) 17-18. At that age this was really great idea.
When Zueva need gold for V-M she didnt let them to use this kind of music. Why now?

But.... Scott really love this music, they really love this FD and they really play great Fred and Audrey. If so i cant understand, why they start all time talking about changes. I think this could be there own victory, like involving in choreo a lot, if they didnt made THIS changes, but compete in black outfit with more jazz dancing in the middle. Who cares about marks, if judges didnt want to give them a gold? They could have audience support.

At this point i only hope they will find there confidence. Andhonestly i will not watch 4CC.


Ha! I just turned off the sound, and wow- compositionally, they really are the same. BUT- Maia and Alex are SIBLINGS skating a latin dance... Tessa and Scott are very clearly NOT siblings and should be rocking the LATIN part of this dance! It is ice DANCE, after all.. if the shibutanis come anywhere close to Tessa and Scott add me to the list of those who are afraid for the future of ice dancing.

Its no matter how Shibs will perfom this SD - they will show easy skating and mayb more speed. But did you really think this is good for V-M that Shibs will skate there SD? From the begining of the season i cant understand - Marina want to show Shibs is worst in latin, then V- or she want to show VM couldnt skate such program clean, like Shibs?
In any case, before all her teams had there own programs.

sap5
01-28-2012, 09:49 PM
I do agree with that. It feels as though they overreacted to something that didn't require overreaction -- Scott didn't fall, nor did they miss their levels, because the structure was somehow wrong. I really felt that as long as they drilled those rhumba sequences and the SS enough, they'd get those 4s, and once that became second nature the PCS would only have more room to grow. The restructuring just seems like overkill.

Isn't that indicative of a coaching problem? It's the coach's job to keep a level head, look at the feedback, and figure out what, if anything, needs to be changed and how that changed should be executed. The skaters can contribute to this process, but their main job should be to execute them program and follow the coach's direction.

Rafter
01-28-2012, 10:04 PM
Its no matter how Shibs will perfom this SD - they will show easy skating and mayb more speed. But did you really think this is good for V-M that Shibs will skate there SD? From the begining of the season i cant understand - Marina want to show Shibs is worst in latin, then V- or she want to show VM couldnt skate such program clean, like Shibs?
In any case, before all her teams had there own programs.

The Shibs faster than V&M? Is that what you're saying?

Anyway, I wonder if Virtue & Moir themselves can see that Marina and Igor give all their teams virtually identical SDs.

pani
01-28-2012, 10:09 PM
The Shibs faster than V&M? Is that what you're saying?

Anyway, I wonder if Virtue & Moir themselves can see that Marina and Igor give all their teams virtually identical SDs.

This made me wonder too. If all others teams have the same circular SS, V-M and Shibs have the same SDs. How V-M could didnt see this? Maybe thats why they looked werid before SD at Nationals? Could you imaging they will skate one after another at WCh? I am sure people, who want V-Mdown or dont like Z-Sh will tell judges about this :(

pani
01-28-2012, 10:23 PM
Look what kind of choreo did Zhulin for his team this season
http://www.youtube.com/user/NikaQuest?feature=watch#p/u/59/bFXwGtyJd3E