PDA

View Full Version : Virtue/Moir Thread #13 (mach two): S'Wonderful



Pages : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 [63] 64 65 66 67 68

HSGP21
01-28-2012, 01:26 PM
All this negativity is making me :scream:. I have faith that V/M will iron out the difficulties they are having.

Watching the Shibs and Davis/White, the only thing that Virtue and Moir are lacking seems to be confidence and practice... I genuinely hope they are NOT reading boards like this, b/c I can't imagine the doom and gloom from their fans would help.

pani
01-28-2012, 01:31 PM
Watching the Shibs and Davis/White, the only thing that Virtue and Moir are lacking seems to be confidence and practice... I genuinely hope they are NOT reading boards like this, b/c I can't imagine the doom and gloom from their fans would help.

Shibs had best skating in this season and this SD better, then first. But look at this SD - this is 100% V-M SD? they copy every Tessas hand moves every step. Even hair style.
Did you notice, V-M, Shibs, D-W all have the SAME circular step sequence? They difference is 1-2 steps or twizzles. Did V-M need to teach there main competitiors? Dont think so.

Rafter
01-28-2012, 04:32 PM
after reading marina and igor comment (or rather, gush) about d/w's short dance over at icenetwork, i realized that i didn't hear either of them talk about v/m's nationals to the papers.

Well perhaps they haven't been asked to comment by any papers. Icenetwork is owned by the USFSA so it's logical that they would want to hype Davis and White and include positive comments from Marina and Igor.

What I wonder is if Virtue and moir still think Marina is their "genius" after having to make so many changes to their programs mid-season.


I wish Virtue and Moir had done what the Shibutanis did and come up with a brand new SD after the GPF.

I just really hope that they are considering a coaching move at the end of the season.

Rafter
01-28-2012, 04:38 PM
When i read this last interview..... OK - maybe they know something more?
And its good for V-M have Tracy and Kurt, who only one support them this season.

What do you mean by this, that they know something more?

I agree that Tracy has been the most supportive for them. I don't know what's going on behind the scenes but it seems that the USFSA is doing a good job hyping Davis and White through icenetwork and Marina and Igor do it the press. I get the feeling a lot of Skate Canada's political energy is spent on Chan.

pani
01-28-2012, 04:46 PM
What do you mean by this, that they know something more?

I agree that Tracy has been the most supportive for them. I don't know what's going on behind the scenes but it seems that the USFSA is doing a good job hyping Davis and White through icenetwork and Marina and Igor do it the press. I get the feeling a lot of Skate Canada's political energy is spent on Chan.

I mean maybe V-M let there coaches know they will retier after this season of will move to another coaches?
Shibs have the same SD, wish is V-M SD, but change the last music part.

Rafter
01-28-2012, 04:55 PM
Is there a link somewhere to to the Shibs SD?

pani
01-28-2012, 04:58 PM
Is there a link somewhere to to the Shibs SD?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioKceCGk-ZA&feature=youtu.be
D-W SD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuQAoG0Cfyw&feature=youtu.be

sliver98
01-28-2012, 05:02 PM
Shibs still a pathetic latin attempt twizzles were good but don`t really go with the music but i guess the only important thing for isu is if you get level 4 on the rhumba sequences and circular step sequence.

shan
01-28-2012, 05:16 PM
after reading marina and igor comment (or rather, gush) about d/w's short dance over at icenetwork, i realized that i didn't hear either of them talk about v/m's nationals to the papers.

I read the icenetwork article and the other article linked, but I don't see the gush about D/W. Igor commented that they skated well. Which parts were gushing? Maybe I missed them.

marbri
01-28-2012, 05:18 PM
My final thoughts on the situation goes back to a conversation Tracy and Kurt had after an event but before the anticipated head to head at the GPF. One comment from Tracy stuck with me, she said sometimes it comes down to a decision made months ago (the choice of FD). The general thought was V&M had the stronger SD but the FD could come down to that decision made months earlier (the music and theme for the FD)

I really think D&W have their "masterpiece" this season. The music and concept is perfect for them and most importantly it satisfies instantly. It accentuates their speed, invites the audience to clap along, the phrasing perfect for a FD. Regardless of my personal preferences in ice dance V&Mīs FD is a grower but I don't think there is enough time or enough to do with the music and theme to turn things around. Particularly in light of all the time wasted redoing their SD.:confused: I can intellectually explain why I think it should score better in some areas but the reality is in the heat of the moment, the heat of competition and especially if D&W skate last I really believe it's a winner for them. I don't consider that doom and gloom, just coming to terms with reality.

I also wonder about the future. I think Igor and Marina are now in the same situation they were when D&W overtook B&A and when B&A overtook L&A. Nothing to do with what child they love more but the reality is you have to serve two teams who want the same spot on the podium, one to retain and one to regain. When V&M came off the GPF they wanted changes to their programs, to find areas to pick up a point here and there. But the points they want to pick up are meant to give them an advantage over D&W. But they also have to serve D&W who will want something new to counteract the advantage they in theory gave to V&M. It's impossible to fully satisfy both teams, impossible. They can say all things are equal and it's up to the skaters to skate well but that isn't reality. It has clearly served them well up until 2010, the friendly rivalry where the order was still accepted but now it's impossible to gain that edge when you skate with your main rivals and the minute you gain "improvements" they will rightfully be asking for the same.

pani
01-28-2012, 05:32 PM
They really have the same - the same circular steps sequenses all Sh-Z teams have in SD :lol:


My final thoughts on the situation goes back to a conversation Tracy and Kurt had after an event but before the anticipated head to head at the GPF. One comment from Tracy stuck with me, she said sometimes it comes down to a decision made months ago (the choice of FD). The general thought was V&M had the stronger SD but the FD could come down to that decision made months earlier (the music and theme for the FD)
This is sound werid for me. Why skaters need to skate at High Perfomance Camp? I thought this is place, where skaters could have information - did they made rght choice of music, elements levels ect. But at Fin Throhy and HPC T-S had a lot off positive feedbackes, but at GPF Tracy (who i am sure were at HPC) found maybe V-M have not right FD choice. How this could be? I thought thats why they steell working with D-W in the same group - they could see, what there main copititors doing.
And if this is truth, why V-M need to made changes in FD, if no matter, what they will doing they will lose to D-W, who someone told us have "masterpiece" this season?

marbri
01-28-2012, 05:41 PM
It's possible at the time they thought it was a fine choice. D&W were originally doing La Strada. And it's still a great FD and they skate it brilliantly but there is still always a but with the choreography. To clear up I think Tracy and Kurt (Kurt has done similar ideas in his career) love the program but when put on the spot I always get the impression they don't know if it's enough so when Tracy says sometimes it comes down to a choice made months earlier she recognizes that it might not get the appreciation D&W's FD will. That's just my gut feeling.

Having said all that 2012 Worlds is not the most important Worlds in this cycle so while I hate to see the disappointment in them and see they struggling next year is much more important and this is where they need some good help in making the right decision early on.

Shayii
01-28-2012, 05:42 PM
All this negativity is making me :scream:. I have faith that V/M will iron out the difficulties they are having.

Aww I wasn't trying to be negative, but I am probably guilty of being a bit pessimistic. IDK I couldn't help it I'm probably frustrated cuz I see how well things are going for the other teams and how the changes made to their dances are a positive, while Tessa and Scott seem to be in a rut. I do have faith that they'll iron things out not sure it'll be enough anymore. When is the next competition, I'm gonna hope and pray they have their confidence back.

marbri
01-28-2012, 05:45 PM
4CC I think.

Golightly
01-28-2012, 05:50 PM
In addition to what marbri has mentioned in that brilliant post, it also comes down to what you produce on the ice. Unfortunately (or, perhaps, fortunately, I don't know?), V-M programs are more layered and complex so they take more time to develop. And they have yet to produce two great skates in a competition this season. They usually skate FF pretty great, even when people didn't quite warm up to the music.

The SD is another issue. Is it better than D-W? Absolutely, even now. But, in their desperation to get more points, they tinkered with it so much that a product that was already good, lost a great deal of its energy. I just don't see this as a coaching issue, guys. It's my impression that V-M are more independent than other S/Z teams and whatever changes they applied, they came up with. I am not entirely against some of those new changes and I am convinced that, if skated cleanly, it could win them many points. But I also think that they brought life to parts of it by taking some from others.

I am not going to use national competitions as a reference, though. We know why the Shibs' score was inflated, nothing particularly new there. I'm also tired of all the negativity. Unlike Belbin and Agosto, when D-W overtook them, Virtue and Moir's skills are still there, so they still have a lot to offer.