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View Full Version : Virtue/Moir Thread #13 (mach two): S'Wonderful



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DORISPULASKI
01-25-2012, 12:13 AM
FWIW, here's the Level 4 lift requirements:


OPTION 1.a)
Requirements for Level 3 Option 1

AND

Creative/Difficult Entry
OPTION 1.b)
Lifted partner sustains a Difficult Pose through at least 5 rotations or moves through a Change of Pose
AND
Lifting partner moves through at least 6 rotations

OPTION 2
Requirements for Level 3 Option 2
AND
One Hand/Arm

I'm guessing they lost the level because Tessa was late to grab her foot and so was not in the "difficult pose" for the full 5 rotations required for level four. In that case, the level would drop back to 3, since those requirements were satisfied.

But I'm not an expert-it would be nice if a real expert would tell us.

zilam98
01-25-2012, 01:05 AM
FWIW, here's the Level 4 lift requirements:



I'm guessing they lost the level because Tessa was late to grab her foot and so was not in the "difficult pose" for the full 5 rotations required for level four. In that case, the level would drop back to 3, since those requirements were satisfied.

But I'm not an expert-it would be nice if a real expert would tell us.

but who is? ;) would a tech caller even browse through this forum?

DORISPULASKI
01-25-2012, 01:21 AM
It's worth remembering that because of the possibility of a time violation, teams can't just plan an extra rotation to be sure the lifted partner is in the difficult position long enough, if there is some delay getting into the difficult position. Everything has to be just right to get the levels without concurrently getting a time violation. It's -.5 to drop the level, but -1 for the time violation, so the risk of dropping the level is the better risk to take.

marbri
01-25-2012, 01:45 AM
FWIW, here's the Level 4 lift requirements:



I'm guessing they lost the level because Tessa was late to grab her foot and so was not in the "difficult pose" for the full 5 rotations required for level four. In that case, the level would drop back to 3, since those requirements were satisfied.

But I'm not an expert-it would be nice if a real expert would tell us.


I don't think you are reading that correctly.

The first option for a Level Four is:
Requirements for Level 3 Option 1
AND
Creative/Difficult Entry

The Requirements for Level 3 Option 1 are:
Lifted partner sustains a Difficult Pose through at least 4 rotations or moves through a Change of Pose
AND
Lifting partner moves through at least 5 rotations

AND with a Creative/Difficult Entry makes it a Level 4

Which is similar to the situation pani described although I believe she mentioned exit instead of entry.

The next option are the rotations 5 and 6 you brought up.

And then there is a third option having to do with one hand/arm.

Bournekraatzfan
01-25-2012, 01:47 AM
This could be a little mistake forn young technickal controller technickal pannel could missed something? I think it will be interesting, if commentators could explane to us such things like lift levels ad dedactions.
I was wonder, when they removed Temptation lift from SD, because technickal specialists didnt think this is 4 level lift. But it very difficult and beutifull - i miss it.

The late blade grab is the only thing I could see. I too wish we could get an explanation.

I miss that lift, too. I believe Tessa said in an interview with pingu that they removed this lift because, due to the pattern of the SD, it left a little loop. I have to say, I like the new lift but I just don't like the distribution of elements in this new version of the SD and therefore hope they revert to the old one. I am curious to see what will happen at 4CC. IMO Tessa and Scott are clearly the best at accentuating the rhythm with their entire bodies. Some people just shake their hips a bit, or throw their arms around--but Tessa and Scott really get the complexity of these rhythms, and that makes them stand out from the rest, IMO.

Bournekraatzfan
01-25-2012, 01:54 AM
b) Should there be a choice, I'd almost rather the Nationals caller was tough. It forces the skaters to improve beyond a shadow of a doubt.



ITA. I really think this will push V&M even more.

marbri
01-25-2012, 01:55 AM
I think all this just emphasizes how great it would be to have someone who could comment on the levels during competitions. By the time Tracy did other broadcasts the past weekend surely she could have found out why they got certain levels. It just seems it would have been a lot more helpful instead of just saying she felt they were underappreciated. Unless of course she heard something else and couldn't say on air :lol:

Bournekraatzfan
01-25-2012, 02:35 AM
My concern goes beyond V/M, I am concerned for P/I and R/H as well.



This is my concern, as well. I could not believe the difference in PCS between P&I and G&P. I am really excited about G&P and am happy they skated so well but I thought P&I skated closer together with more complex holds and more difficult transitions. And despite the little bobbles, P&I had far more polish, IMO. Just look at their line and posture. I also think they have better musicality. They gave such a nuanced performance...subtle and understated....a sort of quiet power. I had chills.

and I was so impressed by R&H. Remember when we saw this at Nebelhorn? Many of us were excited back then and it has been great to see this program develop. I find their posture and expression are much improved this season and also think their connection has grown. I love the intricacy of their program. There is something really different about this team...I feel like they have a clear vision of who they are/want to be out on the ice yet still remain open to trying new things. I was sad to see G&P surpass them by so many points with a less difficult program. I am utterly perplexed at the scoring.



1. It tarnishes the bronze itself.

2. It reads of more than just Nationals inflation. I fully expect that score-wise, G/P will start closing in on W/P next season, and that's a festering pile of crap.

I fear the same thing...I am hoping it is just a Willy Wonka -induced trance and the judges will snap out of it next season?

sliver98
01-25-2012, 02:44 AM
International judges really like Weaver and Poje they now have fans all over the world and could win a medal this year, gilles and poirier are a barely new team still untested internationally i think weaver and poje are safe from them till sochi.

DORISPULASKI
01-25-2012, 04:37 AM
I hope so!

pani
01-25-2012, 11:43 AM
I don't think you are reading that correctly.

The first option for a Level Four is:
Requirements for Level 3 Option 1
AND
Creative/Difficult Entry

The Requirements for Level 3 Option 1 are:
Lifted partner sustains a Difficult Pose through at least 4 rotations or moves through a Change of Pose
AND
Lifting partner moves through at least 5 rotations

AND with a Creative/Difficult Entry makes it a Level 4

Which is similar to the situation pani described although I believe she mentioned exit instead of entry.

The next option are the rotations 5 and 6 you brought up.

And then there is a third option having to do with one hand/arm.

Yes, thanks! And maybe tech. coller just count turns and forget about this first option?


IMO Tessa and Scott are clearly the best at accentuating the rhythm with their entire bodies. Some people just shake their hips a bit, or throw their arms around--but Tessa and Scott really get the complexity of these rhythms, and that makes them stand out from the rest, IMO.

And this reflacted on there skating, because its hard to skate on clean edges, had the same speed and flow, when you body move in different direction (i think this what about Tracy talking at Nationals and Scott talking in pre-SC interview, when he talk about hip movement).
So people, who know a lot about skating maybe appreciate this, but judges let V-M know they wish to see speed and flow on first place. Thats why they change SD and FD i think. But maybe FD now lost some sharm?

Golightly
01-25-2012, 03:35 PM
But maybe FD now lost some sharm?

I disagree. I actually think those changes fit FF very well, even if we lost the standstill dance, I feel the new transition is gorgeous and it even accentuates their lines better. If you check the PCS, FF benefited greatly from those changes. As someone else already said, now they need to work on their levels. 111 with an altered program is a huge score and, unlike those scores they got at GPF (both VM and DW), here I feel there was no inflation, if anything, the technical judges were very picky.

iggie
01-25-2012, 03:43 PM
does anyone have or know of photo galleries for canadian nationals that i could feature on my blog? pm me or leave it here.

(i would credit you for the find)

elle123
01-25-2012, 05:26 PM
iggie, the only one that I know right now is on cbc.ca

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/figureskating/photos/1743

pani
01-25-2012, 05:39 PM
does anyone have or know of photo galleries for canadian nationals that i could feature on my blog? pm me or leave it here.

(i would credit you for the find)

I think you could ask Northern Lights blog auther on ice-dance.com - Melanie Hoyt. Maybe she could help you?


I disagree. I actually think those changes fit FF very well, even if we lost the standstill dance, I feel the new transition is gorgeous and it even accentuates their lines better. If you check the PCS, FF benefited greatly from those changes. As someone else already said, now they need to work on their levels.
But wasnt this part something special? A lot off people before talke they wush to see crazy Audrey more. Now they didnt show something different from others, no?