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View Full Version : Virtue/Moir Thread #13 (mach two): S'Wonderful



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iggie
01-23-2012, 11:43 PM
i'm still marveling at the changes to funny face. i really like it

Proustable
01-24-2012, 01:45 AM
I tend to agree with taf2002.

a) Technical calls will differ. D/W got a level three for their final rotational lift in the FD in CoR. Poje put his foot down in his final lift at the GPF, lowering it to a level three. It can be something that seems incredibly minor to us (not grabbing the blade quickly enough, lowering the number of rotations in the "dificult position" and dropping it down a level) but that's the nitty gritty of COP. I don't mind it too much.

b) Should there be a choice, I'd almost rather the Nationals caller was tough. It forces the skaters to improve beyond a shadow of a doubt.

c) If G/P scored 85-90 (about what they deserved) and W/P 102 (ditto), would people be more accepting of this score? Because 111 and change is about what this deserved.

walei
01-24-2012, 03:10 AM
I agree with Proustable.

Are people upset that V/M's 111 isn't high enough relative to G/P's 100+? I agree that G/P should not get 100+ so definitely a National's inflation going on there. However for V/M they are already so near the perfect score (I think it's 118?) any inflation should seem minor because they can't really go that much higher. Their PCS score here definitely received the National's inflation.

They didn't get a new season's best because of their three level 3s. Any technics here can explain why they got downgraded on three elements? I'm sure there ARE some explanations here, which is definitely a good feedback for them to take back and be mindful of it the next time they are out on the ice to compete.

Finally, I definitely don't see a conspiracy in politiks here and the Canadians judges aren't sending any message for dumpage.

sliver98
01-24-2012, 03:14 AM
I`ve rewatched gilles and poirier FD and ISU may have found another D&W the poster child for COP all speed and tricks sadly i think international judges will love gilles and poirier as much as the canadian ones Tracy wilson seemed stunned at their scores.

flowerpower
01-24-2012, 04:56 AM
If G/P scored 85-90 (about what they deserved) and W/P 102 (ditto), would people be more accepting of this score? Because 111 and change is about what this deserved.

Absolutely, it is the relative scores that are the issue, as far as I'm concerned. Does this not trouble you, in terms of the valuation of ice dancing skills? My concern goes beyond V/M, I am concerned for P/I and R/H as well.

I don't care that much about 111 vs. 112 or 113.




Finally, I definitely don't see a conspiracy in politiks here and the Canadians judges aren't sending any message for dumpage.

No, there is no "message for dumpage", I'd be surprised if anyone was suggesting that. SC would have no reason to "dump" their top team. The issue I have is relative scores and all that may imply.

Proustable
01-24-2012, 05:02 AM
Yes, it does trouble me quite profoundly. You should've heard the stream of invective I unleashed after I saw the 100+ G/P were given.

Pratfall
01-24-2012, 06:55 AM
Proustable...I bet it was much like the stream of invective at my house.. :lol:

taf2002
01-24-2012, 06:59 AM
See, this is what I don't understand. If your fav wins, what do you care what the 3rd place team scored? Did another team deserve 3rd place? Does it tarnish V/M/s gold in some way?

If that was simply national's overinflation, it won't happen again. If they actually deserved their scores, then we'll see those kinds of marks again. Either way it doesn't seem like cause for high blood pressure.

DORISPULASKI
01-24-2012, 07:33 AM
It's G&P's score that annoys me. If they scored about 90 to 95, I'd be happier with the scoring overall. To level set, W&P didn't quite break 100 with their fabulous performance at the GPF. And W&P only lost .5 for the lift level there; their GOE was fine.

Now, W&P gained some 6 points here, making them significantly closer to V&M. Granted 0.5 were due to getting back the lift level. And I thought W&P were underscored at GPF (about the only team that was.)

If you saw the program live or on TV, do you feel W&P should have been lower in PCS here at Canadians (V&M really couldn't have been much higher in the FD in PCS than they were) because they were some number of points worse than V&M?

I thought W&P's tech scores were about right here, but I never feel comfortable judging PCS from streaming video. The audio/video synchronization is so seldom good that it is hard for me to judge timing.

Pratfall
01-24-2012, 08:35 AM
taf..I care because I care about more than just V/M.. We should be able to expect a fair competition, nationally . If one team's scores are vastly inflated , that could not only be robbing the teams below them , but it implies the teams above them are not as deserving as they really are.

It says to the world that Canada thinks V/M are only 16.48 points better than G/P which is simply outrageous ,and demeaning to V/M.

In the real world where we know that rep still counts for something ( even though CoP has lessened the importance ) this can be damaging to the other five or six top teams, one way or another.

And yes , considering that their marks were inflated in both the SD and the FD..it's very possible that another team deserved 3rd place.

walei
01-24-2012, 11:57 AM
taf..I care because I care about more than just V/M.. We should be able to expect a fair competition, nationally . If one team's scores are vastly inflated , that could not only be robbing the teams below them , but it implies the teams above them are not as deserving as they really are.

It says to the world that Canada thinks V/M are only 16.48 points better than G/P which is simply outrageous ,and demeaning to V/M.

In the real world where we know that rep still counts for something ( even though CoP has lessened the importance ) this can be damaging to the other five or six top teams, one way or another.

And yes , considering that their marks were inflated in both the SD and the FD..it's very possible that another team deserved 3rd place.

So had V/M scored perfect @ 118 that puts them 24 points above G/P.

What does it mean when V/M is 24 pts more than G/P instead of 16 (again from memory 118 is perfect correct?)

I think what I am trying to get at is V/M is SO close to getting a perfect score, when you get score that high the room for inflation is less than for a team like G/P. No they shouldn't have gotten over 100 but it doesn't mean that the judges are sending a message when they are giving V/M less of an inflation. There just isn't that much inflation to give when the internation judges are giving them 6 points from a perfect score!

Again as pointed out repeatedly, they got dinged for three level 3s. Any techniks out there can give any possible explanations why?

Proustable
01-24-2012, 03:46 PM
See, this is what I don't understand. If your fav wins, what do you care what the 3rd place team scored? Did another team deserve 3rd place? Does it tarnish V/M/s gold in some way?

If that was simply national's overinflation, it won't happen again. If they actually deserved their scores, then we'll see those kinds of marks again. Either way it doesn't seem like cause for high blood pressure.

1. It tarnishes the bronze itself.

2. It reads of more than just Nationals inflation. I fully expect that score-wise, G/P will start closing in on W/P next season, and that's a festering pile of crap.

taf2002
01-24-2012, 04:13 PM
I've watched G/P's national performances (never saw them before) & I was very surprised how good they were. The crowd & the commentators were very receptive....during the SD Tracey gushed about how close they were skating & their leg line & how they didn't look like a new team, and the audience broke into cheers several times during their dances. I loved their twizzles & their programs were inventive & fun. I liked them 100x more than I've ever liked W/P & I think they will pass them by next year. I sure didn't think they were crap & apparently, neither did the judges.

rvi5
01-24-2012, 05:11 PM
...during the SD Tracey gushed about how close they were skating & their leg line & how they didn't look like a new team...
But during the LP, Tracy also mentioned they were a little raw around the edges, and didn't always have the unison and leg extensions (expected in a new team). She also said there was "hand-to-hand skating, which makes it easier". However that being said, overall both commentators agreed G/P had potential.

PashaFan
01-24-2012, 05:16 PM
But during the LP, Tracy also mentioned they were a little raw around the edges, and didn't always have the unison and leg extensions (expected in a new team). She also said there was "hand-to-hand skating, which makes it easier". However that being said, overall both commentators agreed G/P had potential.

Potential yes. But I just don't get such high scores. They look like a good couple for the future but Tessa & Scott are the most natural ice dancers of the past twenty years.
Judges never cease to shock me. Are they watching the same as us?!.