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View Full Version : Virtue/Moir Thread #13 (mach two): S'Wonderful



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maharbabackward
01-23-2012, 01:38 AM
If you look at the marks, the judges actually gave them RAVE reviews. I don't know what Tracy was talking about with them being "underapprecciated". Fact is, they got +2 or +3 GOE on everything and their PCS ranged from 9.5 to 10. The truth is that the technical specialists have A LOT of power. Essentially, without the extended lift deduction they got about 113 (rounding up), which is an improvement from GPF. Factor in that they lost 3 levels (two for the step sequences and one for the lift) and then you see where all the points are lost. The step sequences are generally level 3 for most people, so that's not a concern. The GPF actually was an abberancy rather than the norm, because level 4 step sequences are very difficult to come by (I don't think V&M have had level 4 since 2009 AFAIK). The rotational lift however was grade level 3 in both the SD and FD variations, which is confounding to me because it looks insanely difficult. She twists into it, then hits a difficult yet still asthetically pleasing position and he rotates her really fast and sets her down nicely. Was it lack of turns? That is the only thing I can think of? But yeah, don't blame the Canadian judges, blame the damn technical specialist LOL

sliver98
01-23-2012, 01:50 AM
Off topic but did anyone notice Kaitlyn weaver`s reaction to G&P as their marks were announced after their skate as she was taking her starting position she gave the look of death to the judges, as a way of saying 100 WTF it was their first major performance and it wasn`t all that:lol:

Wyliefan
01-23-2012, 01:56 AM
From the article Shayii posted:



This is such bull, but hopefully everyone can be happy now that he's being PC. :lol:

Is it being PC to take responsibility for your own mistakes? He said he should have gotten the lift right by now; that's something the judges can't be blamed for, and he's right not to do it.

aka_gerbil
01-23-2012, 02:14 AM
Gerbil it seems you're pretty sure they are gonna change coaches no matter what at the end of the season. What makes you think that?

Just to preface this, I'm going to go with what is the least controversial way to answer and leave out possible issues of favoritism/prefernece within the training group.

For all the talk about taking it year to year, I think V/M are probably looking towards Sochi. They still don't have a GPF title, which I think they obviously want. Worlds are literally in their hometown next year--how often do you get to skate Worlds in your own country, much less the place you were born? That puts them up to the Olympic year, and I can't see them getting that close to it and not trying for it unless Tessa's legs just totally give up on them. At any rate, I think they're in for at least a couple of more seasons after this, and I think there are some things they want to do and win in that time--GPF, Worlds again, another OGM.

Right now, for whatever the reasons may be, things aren't going the way they'd like for them to be. Scott's frustration was obviously evident at the GPF. Despite their talk of trusting their process, building right now, being pleased with their marks last night, etc., their faces said different.

Something, for some reason, isn't clicking right now. Sometimes, when things aren't clicking, shaking things up with changing coaches works wonders. If anything, a new location, as well as new coaches with different ideas, can bring a new, fresh perspective that can turn things around.

It's not uncommon for skaters/teams at this level to change coaches. Just to stick with dance, historically, we've seen K/P change coaches from Dubova to Tarasova in 1991 when they felt that they weren't getting what they needed. G/P--after winning the OGM in 94-- left Linichuk when they felt they were no longer getting what they needed from her.

I guess, more than anything, the feeling comes from following this sport for a long time now and seeing some of the things going on with V/M matching up to situations in the past that have resulted in a coaching change.

iggie
01-23-2012, 02:28 AM
team orange interview.

tessa and scott said they trust marina completely. yes, they may have their doubts about what she has in mind, but marina has always proven to be right. so they may see things starting to unravel, but while that may encourage other teams to find new coaches, it just makes tessa and scott more determined to trust marina and her plan, expecting it to be perfect in the end. the only way they're going to stop seeing her as perfect is if they lose worlds.

Subway
01-23-2012, 02:30 AM
Fire & Conviction are nice, but Tracy was correctly criticizing how VM's level of difficulty was undervalued in the scoring. Both pcs and TES are sides of the same coin - they measure skills on a technical basis. On that basis, Tracy felt the level of skill it takes to perform VM's kind of detail and control - is undervalued and shouldn't be. "fire" is nice, but here at fsu theatre and emotion are considered judging criteria but they're not what Tracy meant.

Subway
01-23-2012, 02:34 AM
I was kind of hoping the lack of interaction with Marina meant something, but it was right back after the FD. Part of me doesn't think they'll ever make a change but I guess you never know.The few times Tessa has made a real mistake she tends to get down on herself is my impression. She doesn't want to be patted and paid attention to on camera in the Kiss'n'Cry because it makes her angrier at herself. Scott, Marina and Igor often play it low key rather than jollying her up, which would make her madder. She's mad at herself. It looks like her process to me and they give her some space; don't get in her face. That's what the sd Kiss'n Cry looked like.

Subway
01-23-2012, 02:38 AM
I like the old SD. They just need to skate lights out of it. Up until Nationals I also thought Marina was supportive but after seeing the changes to SD, I have serious doubts about her. I think maybe they all rightly thought Tessa's ability to actually latin dance on the ice with the right rhythm and character would count for something. Turns out in the sd dancing doesn't count for much in ice dance. Who cares about latin rhythm. Just move fast, be flashy and blow it out at the end. I think that's the message they got after the GPF. I think if Charlie had fallen they wouldn't be behind Tessa and Scott five points.

A little cynical after this weekend.

flowerpower
01-23-2012, 02:43 AM
I think maybe they all rightly thought Tessa's ability to actually latin dance on the ice with the right rhythm and character would count for something. Turns out in the sd dancing doesn't count for much in ice dance. Who cares about latin rhythm. Just move fast, be flashy and blow it out at the end. I think that's the message they got after the GPF. I think if Charlie had fallen they wouldn't be behind Tessa and Scott five points.

A little cynical after this weekend.

Yes, I know what you mean. And G/P's marks this weekend just emphasize that.

aka_gerbil
01-23-2012, 02:48 AM
I think maybe they all rightly thought Tessa's ability to actually latin dance on the ice with the right rhythm and character would count for something. Turns out in the sd dancing doesn't count for much in ice dance. Who cares about latin rhythm. Just move fast, be flashy and blow it out at the end. I think that's the message they got after the GPF. I think if Charlie had fallen they wouldn't be behind Tessa and Scott five points.

A little cynical after this weekend.

I'm not sure dancing counts for much anywhere in ice dance any more.

Subway
01-23-2012, 02:54 AM
Yes, I know what you mean. And G/P's marks this weekend just emphasize that.

Yes. A panel that was severe on Virtue and Moir's SD and found a previously level 4 FD rotational lift a level 3 dragged G/P to 100+? The two standards make no sense - it's all backwards trying to push a team with lesser skills and tie an anchor to a team that's great. And all this nonsense just makes it harder to have faith in what you're doing. It feels like they're getting jerked around. I don't have theories but a bad taste in my mouth.

This isn't about Marina at all. It's not Canton politics or their programs. Something's just fishy, no matter what the programs I guess is how I'm feeling.

Rafter
01-23-2012, 03:07 AM
I think maybe they all rightly thought Tessa's ability to actually latin dance on the ice with the right rhythm and character would count for something. Turns out in the sd dancing doesn't count for much in ice dance. Who cares about latin rhythm. Just move fast, be flashy and blow it out at the end. I think that's the message they got after the GPF. I think if Charlie had fallen they wouldn't be behind Tessa and Scott five points.

A little cynical after this weekend.

Interesting point. You're probably right.

bbkenn
01-23-2012, 03:08 AM
Yes. A panel that was severe on Virtue and Moir's SD and found a previously level 4 FD rotational lift a level 3 dragged G/P to 100+? The two standards make no sense - it's all backwards trying to push a team with lesser skills and tie an anchor to a team that's great. And all this nonsense just makes it harder to have faith in what you're doing. It feels like they're getting jerked around. I don't have theories but a bad taste in my mouth.

This isn't about Marina at all. It's not Canton politics or their programs. Something's just fishy, no matter what the programs I guess is how I'm feeling.

Maybe Pani's idea that the fix is in, D&W in exchange for PChan. I don't know, but it seems wrong to me too, and so unfair to Olympic Champions. Russia never treated G&P that way, but they did drop support for U&V.

sliver98
01-23-2012, 03:08 AM
something is fishy this is the same panel who last year thought crone and poirier were better than weaver and poje, two months later international judges emphatically reversed that decision that ended the crone and poirier partnership, now he`s back with someone new for less than a year they get 100 plus sorry but both virtue and moir and weaver and poje looked peeved. Too much baloney and politics involved skate canada needs a serious overhaul of judges and tech panels.

Rafter
01-23-2012, 03:10 AM
Maybe Pani's idea that the fix is in, D&W in exchange for PChan. I don't know, but it seems wrong to me too, and so unfair to Olympic Champions. Russia never treated G&P that way, but they did drop support for U&V.

I would like to think not but I guess you never know. Maybe they are spending their political time pushing Weaver and Poje.