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View Full Version : Virtue/Moir Thread #13 (mach two): S'Wonderful



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marbri
01-22-2012, 05:12 AM
The judges scored them well in the FD.
They were harsher in the SD. That is where most of Tracy's comments were coming from because she brought it up BEFORE they even skated the FD.

alice73
01-22-2012, 05:12 AM
Recall that Tessa had a surgery 15 months ago, and was contemplating one eight months ago. Then remember that what Tessa's currently doing is changing her stroking method in order to be able to skate more powerfully without hurting herself. Now, when someone changes their jumps, they often struggle with the correct technique in a way they didn't with the flawed technique. In the long run, correcting the technique is the right move. That could inhibit her ability to get the levels, and if she can't, they can't.

Well, they have both been saying that are healthy and fully trained this season. And they got lower levels with the revamped SD then they had before. So the changes that their coaches approved of didn't work.

Proustable
01-22-2012, 05:18 AM
The judges scored them well in the FD.
They were harsher in the SD. That is where most of Tracy's comments were coming from because she brought it up BEFORE they even skated the FD.

Protocols (http://results.skatecanada.ca/2011-2012/2012CDNS/2012CDNSSrDanceShortsegJudgesDetails.pdf)

Twos and threes (one one), except on the twizzles. Low nines for PCS.

Lets put it this way.

1. They aren't leaving Z/S. I would wager money on that.

2. So if it's their coaches screwing them over, then they'll never win blah blah blah

3. If it's something they themselves are doing wrong, they can work, they can improve and they can win.

I chose to believe number three. At his moment, anyway

alice73
01-22-2012, 05:21 AM
They could stay in Canton but with Marina letting them have outside choreography. That would probably be ideal for them. Love the idea of Ingo Stoer. He's very creative.

marbri
01-22-2012, 05:22 AM
Protocols (http://results.skatecanada.ca/2011-2012/2012CDNS/2012CDNSSrDanceShortsegJudgesDetails.pdf)

Twos and threes (one one), except on the twizzles. Low nines for PCS.

Three threes, majority twos. Lowest PCS 8.75 (and they got a handful of those).

But for me the biggest issue with the SD are the changes do nothing to improve the dance. If anything it weakened the dance and that has nothing to do with her stumbling on a twizzle.

eta..since you added to your post. I don't need you to "Put it this way" for me. I have no idea if they are going to change coaches or if they even want to, my thoughts on that have always been to wait until after Worlds. As for your choice to believe #3, that's your choice. What I believe is they need to undo the damage done to the SD (and that's not just their fault) and just skate the programs as best they can and let the chips fall where they may.

aka_gerbil
01-22-2012, 05:26 AM
They could stay in Canton but with Marina letting them have outside choreography. That would probably be ideal for them. Love the idea of Ingo Stoer. He's very creative.

I just don't see there being outside choreography if they stay in Canton.

Proustable
01-22-2012, 05:30 AM
eta..since you added to your post. I don't need you to "Put it this way" for me. I have no idea if they are going to change coaches or if they even want to, my thoughts on that have always been to wait until after Worlds. As for your choice to believe #3, that's your choice. What I believe is they need to undo the damage done to the SD (and that's not just their fault) and just skate the programs as best they can and let the chips fall where they may.

My tone was combatitive, and I apologize for that.

I tend to agree with regards to the SD. I rather wish that if they really wanted to keep the three pieces of music, that they went twizzles + lift in Hip-Hip, Rhumba in Temptation, and circ. step in Mujer. But that didn't happen.

Actually, my wish was that they were healthy last season, won Worlds with this as the FD, and didn't feel the need to shift it into an SD, honestly.

AragornElessar
01-22-2012, 06:51 AM
You know something...I love Tracy and usually ITA w/her and what she's saying, but not tonight. As far as FF tonight was concerned, it was fantastic and I adored it. I was scared they'd done a complete overhaul of it when I heard they'd made changes, but thankfully I do think FF is a bit better. Also agree w/most of you and wish they'd left in that first lift from earlier in the season, but...It was still a fantastic performance tonight.

Last night OTOH...If I have to hear Tracy whine, and that is what she's doing, about how underappreciated what Tessa and Scott do out there and how the Judges "unfairly dinged them for the SD" tomorrow, then our barely a year old Plasma big screen TV down here will be in dire danger, as I'll be pitching something towards it!! If they'd skated the way we all know Tessa and Scott skate, w/fire, passion and ease and *still* ended up w/the marks they'd gotten for the SD last night, then I'd agree Tracy has a point.

That didn't happen though. For the first time ever during the years I've watched Tessa and Scott, they were tight *and* tentitive last night. Maybe it was all the changes made to the SD and more time needed for it to gel and Tessa's twizzle stumble, but that was not the Virtue and Moir we all know and love that skated that SD last night. When you combine the ding for the missed twizzle, the tightness and all of the other little mistakes here and there last night and...I don't understand why Tracy's so upset. I actually thought the marks were beyond fair last night. I mean, can you all imagine what would have happened if they'd gotten the marks Tracy thinks they "deserved" last night?

There'd be another flurry of articles about Judging in Skating. At the very least some would be calling out the Judges for doing a "Well, they didn't skate all that well, but they *are* the Olympic Champions and we know what they actually can do, therefore..." kind of a marking. Thankfully, the Judges didn't do that and actually did give what IMO were fair marks to what Tessa and Scott did out there last night in the SD.

I wish they'd never tinkered w/the SD at all. The original version of it was fine and if Scott hadn't fallen at the GPF, I think we would have still been watching the original version of that very program. Say what they will, but I also have been getting whiffs of a bit of more support to Meryl and Charlie from Marina and Igor/the Canton camp this season. It's one thing to say everything's fine and nothing's changed in Canton, but that's not what my, and others here as well, instincts are telling me.

The mess w/the SD and how it's been handled I think is telling the true story of just who is truly being pushed/supported in the Canton camp these days. Sad too. I also think it's time for a Coaching Change, but like the rest of you, no idea who or where to go for these two incredably talented skaters.

What I want most of all though? To see the smiles on Tessa and Scott's faces matched by the happiness in their eyes. They "looked" happy at the end of the FD tonight when being interviewed, but I don't believe they really were and that's sad for a team that just won their National Title back.

Bue
01-22-2012, 01:07 PM
Have I missed something... why is pani posting under the name m_chenning? :confused: (It's kind of obvious who it is lol)

kapriza
01-22-2012, 01:07 PM
Kind of wild idea, but what if they went to Ingo Steur for choreo? I don't think he's ever done dance choreo, but his choreo for S/S is really intricate and interesting and a lot of the moves in the field they do are derived from dance.
I love the idea :swoon:

HSGP21
01-22-2012, 01:09 PM
new interview from pj

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJeRcc37LPU&feature=g-u-u&context=G2b3d641FUAAAAAAABAA

well this is bringing up an old beaten-to-death topic, but it's less stressful than analyzing the marks/making recommendations for their careers.

their definitions of romance are absolutely adorable! it seemed strange to see them disconnected in the sd...but those little comments made me more confident in their connection. I am not concerned..they are going to get through this. Even if they are 2nd in the world this yr that gives them the fight to come back for a home town worlds (how often does THAT happen) and another olympics. no matter WHAT happens during the remainder of their career they are already olympic champions and no one can take that away from them.

~tapdancer~
01-22-2012, 02:46 PM
She's never said V&M would cruise past D/W at worlds and has always been complimentary towards D/W, so I don't know why you would make such a snarky comment.
It wasn't meant to be snarky and I never said she SAID that. You missed my point. V/M are healthy now but it would seem that they are more vulnerable than they think. Tracy is just putting the support out there and making a point about the judging (technically, the tech panel). Yes, she is very complimentary towards D/W and I adore her, always have. But for her to use words like "undermarked" and "underappreciated", that's just politiking. Which is not to say she doesn't mean it sincerely. I know she genuinely loves V/M and was probably emotional. She does love ice dance and I appreciate her knowledge and her love of the sport.

Subway
01-22-2012, 03:09 PM
They could stay in Canton but with Marina letting them have outside choreography. That would probably be ideal for them. Love the idea of Ingo Stoer. He's very creative. I think they love Marina's choreography. Marinia's creative. Tracy Wilson says that all the time and she's right. Some people's idea of creative is doing contemporary/theatrical themes that's all.

Tessa and Scott being ice dancers, are the most creative out there. The rhythmic and composition of their programs is more creative than anyone's. If you watch other ice dancers from these other training centers with the sound off, they're the same all the time. In a sense, so is the costume and theme, always being something theatrical. Tessa and Scott are creative with dance. If they wanted theatrical or outre', Marina would make programs like Chock/Guerlein's.

Tessa and Scott are scored well, it comes off like the judges are looking on purpose for ways to score them conservatively, but not holding Davis & White to the same standard at all. It doesn't feel fair. They're scored highly but relative to what they do compared to Davis/White, they're not getting enough credit. If speed and attack gets credit, so should control and amazing skating skills along with attack and speed, which Tracy Wilson talked about because it's a figure skating competition. It's a division too -dance - which should count for something. Maybe Tessa and Scott should apply for US citizenship. :) It's off base in Canada. G/P's scores were ridiculous and W/P have a program that works but their skating is not inside six points of Tessa and Scott's. I'm glad Tracy Wilson said Tessa and Scott deserve better.

sliver98
01-22-2012, 03:24 PM
Tessa and scott are great no doubt but don`t forget they have a 10 year partnership advantage on weaver and poje and to be honest i find andrew poje a more convincing latin dancer than scott moir.

iggie
01-22-2012, 03:53 PM
how long have teams been chasing 100+ points? because g/p scored 100, i thought okay, this judging panel is going to be really generous tonight and in order to reflect the difference in skating between g/p and v/m, i'm expecting v/m's scores to be huge! 111 was not huge. in fact, it was below their own standard.

i don't blame the judges who tried hard with the pcs and goe's. but tessa and scott just didn't have their levels. i wonder how they would have faired if they had left the programs alone and just focused on skating well, goe's and levels.