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iggie
01-11-2012, 02:29 AM
what i find surprizing is that we haven't gotten any comment from v/m on the calculation error. that said, i read an article on cynthia on the globeandmail.com (canada's biggest national newspaper) so i expect an article on v/m pretty soon.

clarie
01-11-2012, 02:57 AM
Tessa and Scott have a tendency to lay low while training, so I don't expect anything too soon. Very nice article btw.

pani
01-11-2012, 07:35 AM
I like how Canadian press and SC support there skaters :lol:
Even if some people forget about what Scott said at GPF - we let you know ;)
Scott is punished and now it is forbidden to it to talk :D So we will not find anything from them - Marina didnt let him and he now сarries White bags now. :P
The time to show D-W are Angels- good work, Marina!

Especially i love this

Although Virtue and Moir are Olympic champions, Davis and White remain undefeated over the past two seasons, but their scores are always close.

Why V-M need to compete - even Canada understand, D-W are Gods :lol:

walei
01-11-2012, 08:07 AM
Pani your post is just ridiculous.

clarie
01-11-2012, 01:09 PM
Pani your post is just ridiculous.

I agree. Pani, settle down and just enjoy this team for what they are....fast, smooth, deep edges, beautiful matching leg lines, wonderful creative lifts, connection second to none, close skating to one another, etc, etc, etc,. To top all that off, Tessa is one beautiful woman with nice long legs, and Scott's a hawtee. They aren't "toast" yet..........believe it!!!!!! :)

pani
01-11-2012, 01:17 PM
Pani your post is just ridiculous.

I am glad my post made you smile. :D
Sorry, but i really cant understand canadian press. Cant remember some good posts about russian ice dancers at Global and Mail ;) And i cant remember V-M interviews in USA press (only in a village Canton press :lol:).

This is really sad, becuase i thought this situation at GPF will move Tessa and Scott to made changes (like someone post - its the end of Shpilband). But now they made impression - who listening Scott? He always talk something crazy, we know this and now he feel guilty. And most sad thing is - Scott didnt understand (from this angels interview) he and Tessa outgrow Сanton.
Maybe Tessa, like Dube, didnt want to try new things? But if she deside to compete she need improve and show something new, but not this Zueva-style.
And sorry, i will not post this again, but i really cant understand - why all V-M fans must like D-W? Sorry, but i like russian ice dancers more.....

Golightly
01-11-2012, 02:44 PM
You don't have to like Davis and White, no one's said you have to like Davis and White, god knows I can't stand their "dancing", but you don't have to be obsessed with them either, Pani. To you it's as if V-M's skating were defined in terms of what D-W can or cannot do and that is just so, so unfair. It's as if I sat in front of my computer all day writing that I hate Nadal because I like Federer. So, calm down a bit, stop making war and enjoy Virtue and Moir for who they are: pure dancers.

pani
01-11-2012, 02:58 PM
You don't have to like Davis and White, no one's said you have to like Davis and White, god knows I can't stand their "dancing", but you don't have to be obsessed with them either, Pani. To you it's as if V-M's skating were defined in terms of what D-W can or cannot do and that is just so, so unfair. It's as if I sat in front of my computer all day writing that I hate Nadal because I like Federer. So, calm down a bit, stop making war and enjoy Virtue and Moir for who they are: pure dancers.

I my last posts i talked about Canadian press, who made PR to main competitiors of canadian skaters and didnt made the same for wxample in 1998, when B-K competed against G-P, K-O and A-P ;)
You could doing what you want :D
If i think V-M overgrow Canton - i will post this. If i think this was the last chance for V-M to change situation and to push there limits - i will post this. They didnt understand this& OK, but this made me sad. You could be a friends, but you need to work on your own future.

NorthernDancers
01-11-2012, 04:17 PM
I my last posts i talked about Canadian press, who made PR to main competitiors of canadian skaters and didnt made the same for wxample in 1998, when B-K competed against G-P, K-O and A-P ;)
You could doing what you want :D
If i think V-M overgrow Canton - i will post this. If i think this was the last chance for V-M to change situation and to push there limits - i will post this. They didnt understand this& OK, but this made me sad. You could be a friends, but you need to work on your own future.

Pani, I think the reason why these teams are both so successful is that they are friends, train and push each other together for years, and their coaches treat them both equally. I don't buy that coaches are playing favourites at all. And considering the top 3 in the world are in the same rink right now, I don't see the big need to move elsewhere. I don't think it will benefit them at all. Either team.

Both teams have very different styles. IMHO, I do think what V/M do is pure ice dance, and in its own very special class, and what they do is not getting sufficient recognition this season. I don't think the issue is with the programs or the coaches. Their FD is so intricate and incredible - just brilliant. It's with how judges are perceiving and scoring them. And this is not just true of V/M as compared to D/W, but other teams as well. We see it at Challenge and I'm sure we will see it at Nationals. There seems to be a perception with judges that speed and power equals good skating. Look at the over-scoring of Gilles/Poirier. I also think some of those BC teams are overscored, including Orford/Williams. Ice dance should not be a speed skating contest. It should be about the quality of movement....the dancing on ice. The unison between the partners, the lines, the edges, the turns, matching quality. D/W are very, very good skaters who I love to watch, but I agree with Scott that on PCS, they are not as good as V/M, and should not be scored so closely. I'd expect D/W and V/M to basically tie on the technical mark, with D/W sometimes having the edge. But I don't really think they are that close on PCS. D/W have more raw power and speed than V/M. But they miss on line, edge, unison, quality of movement. Both teams have programs that match their particular style. I think that the judges are just too used to thinking power and speed equals the better team than watching for the details and quality of movement. It's a general trend right now, and V/M are pushing that boundary. I really hope it works, and we see ice dance move more in the direction of V/M style than D/W style. That's just my opinion. But I also note that Zhulin said basically the same thing in a recent interview.

Subway
01-11-2012, 04:31 PM
"They don't understand this". Neither do I.

They don't understand that you know much better? When did that happen? You became the expert on what they need? Who they are? What they think?

That's being a fan to a whole different level. Scott's opinion doesn't agree with yours. So - of course this means Scott isn't doing what you want because he "doesn't understand" that you know what's best for him. So - you understand Scott's career better - he is blind to Marina, D/W, Tessa, judges, but you can see. Poor Scott. You are the only one who can help Scott but he won't listen. You understand Scott better than everybody - what he needs, what he wants. Poor Scott, so emotional but no brains.

pani
01-11-2012, 05:21 PM
It's with how judges are perceiving and scoring them. And this is not just true of V/M as compared to D/W, but other teams as well.

But wasnt this Z-Sh who made this new ice dance style - speed and power without dancing? They bring this style on the top and this direction for this 4 years before OG. They couldnt give there teams such base, like V-M recived from there previose coaches, like Nechaeve-Tsesnitsenko gave to there teams, so they made new pro-Davis style ;) So V-M show ice dance like it was before Davis era. Did Zueva work on V-M? Dont think so. But coaches sing this song again - we give all the same, its bad bad uncle in ISU didnt let you to be on top again.
There programs (even SD) - good for junior sport, but not for team, who need to get there gold at WCh back.


So - you understand Scott's career better

Yes, it there own career. But its not enough to think you are the best and didnt impove emotionally and still skate you junior programs. Sometime you could lose, but people will rememberyou forever. But V-M now lose with programs, wich in next year nobody will remember :( You couldnt all time be sweet young boy and girl even if Marina couldnt give you more.
You need to fight, but not after your words made impression - o, i feel sorry, Canton is a Paradise, we all like the owm family.

Subway
01-11-2012, 05:48 PM
Funny Face isn't a junior program. It's sophisticated - much more sophisticated than D/W's program.

What I see above is "I, a fan" understand this better. "My" judgment of the program is correct. "Everybody" see things one way after GPF - these are the problems, but Scott and Tessa didn't fix the problems. Where does all this come from - the expertise of a fan? Even more - a fan acting like *I* know Scott better.

When did a fan become the expert on the programs? They're not junior programs. Fred Astaire is one of the most sophisticated popular performers in history. Gershwin is a sophisticated composer of popular music. There is nothing more senior about skating super drama characters, toys, circus or nonhuman things.

Scott and Tessa didn't have problems just because you think so. Even if they do have problems, when did you become the expert on the problems they might have and the proper solutions? And everybody is to blame except for Scott. Even take the needle to Tessa. So you know Scott like a mother but a mother who knows best.

aka_gerbil
01-11-2012, 05:50 PM
I my last posts i talked about Canadian press, who made PR to main competitiors of canadian skaters and didnt made the same for wxample in 1998, when B-K competed against G-P, K-O and A-P ;)
You could doing what you want :D
If i think V-M overgrow Canton - i will post this. If i think this was the last chance for V-M to change situation and to push there limits - i will post this. They didnt understand this& OK, but this made me sad. You could be a friends, but you need to work on your own future.

I do fall into the camp of wanting V/M to change coaches (for several different reasons). It's up to them to make that choice though. If they do change/were to change, this is not the time of year we'd see them do it. Someone can correct me if my perception is wrong, but you just don't see a lot of mid-season coaching changes. If it happens, I think it would be after the end of the season. I also definitely think that Tessa isn't afraid of change. We're talking about a person who moved away from home at 13 to train. From what I've read about them and seen in interviews, I think if they think they need to change coaches, that's what they'll do.

As for not hearing anything out of V/M press-wise, I'd imagine that they're training like crazy right now and we'll likely see press here in the next few weeks as Canadian Nationals get closer.

pani
01-11-2012, 05:51 PM
Scott and Tessa didn't have problems just because you think so. Even if they do have problems, when did you become the expert on the problems they might have and the proper solutions? And everybody is to blame except for Scott. Even take the needle to Tessa. So you know Scott like a mother but a mother who knows best.

Maybe to be always second - is there dream, i dont know :D It wasnt i, who gave them on 6 points less, then to D-W.
And T-S, you, Zueva, Skate Cada could think this is good programs and dont think - why judges didnt gave them higher component score.

DORISPULASKI
01-11-2012, 06:51 PM
pani, I think you have one point: I don't think North American, or for that matter British, teams have ever gotten the international scores I thought they should have when skating to a Fred Astaire program. (At this point in time, I'm not remembering too many non North American teams dancing to Astaire, although there may well have been some, only F&S and they were underscored too.

Faiella & Scali for their Follow the Fleet OD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrSkdZEwrSY

I am particularly thinking of Blumberg & Seibert 1983:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWAyYy7XjrI

and Torvill & Dean 1994
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51j3-pWEskc

or for that matter, to tap dance routines in general:
Suzie Wynne & Joe Druar 1990
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZyZGhej1yU

In fact, you could make a case for step dancing in general
Bourne & Kraatz River Dance, for example.

Staccato tap/step dances don't show off your edges, and the rapid steps impede your speed. If the judges don't have any emotional attachment to tap dance or step dance, or respect for Astaire as a cultural hero (as he is in the US and Canada), they just aren't going to appreciate that sort of program as well as some other programs.

However, Tessa has wanted to do this program for a long, long time. She is an adult. If she went to another coach, do you suppose that coach would have been able to keep her from doing Fred & Audrey?

If anything, S&Z are rather permissive as to music choice with their teams. IMO, they should have prevented B&A from doing That's Entertainment, but Tanith & Ben explicitly wanted to do that program. And frankly, Meryl & Charlie would have been better off with something other than Phantom of the Opera for an Olympic year (again, IMO), but Charlie was set on doing Phantom.

If Tessa & Scott hated that sort of coaching, I think they would have left years ago.