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View Full Version : Why is Czisny not fined like Flatt was for skating injured?



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museksk8r
12-13-2011, 01:45 PM
Ugh, this thread is destined for the Trash Can. :shuffle:

stjeaskategym
12-13-2011, 06:00 PM
:lol: You don't get fined for skating injured and costing the US spots at Worlds. If that were the case, USFS could fine just about every skater. These are elite athletes who are encouraged to act tough and often try to gut it out through mild/moderate injuries. Plenty of them will push through competition with various strains, sprains, aches, bruises, even stress fractures on occasion. And losing a spot at Worlds doesn't seem that critical in USFS's eyes. If it was, they would have sent Abbott last season to at least give us a fighting chance.

As others have mentioned, Rachael was fined for hiding the injury. I'm not sure at what point USFS can force skaters to withdraw, but they at least could have gotten Rachael medical treatment while at Worlds if they had known about the injury, which may have given her a better chance of competing more effectively.

Basically, this situation has nothing in common with Alissa's situation. :lol:



It's clear the international judges have cast her off: she was last in one competition and like 8th or 9th in another, even after skating relatively well.

I don't really think Flatt skated well on the GP. She was relatively shaky (and sometimes really shaky) and doing watered down technical content. I don't think judges are sending her a major message as much as she just didn't put anything out there that was very competitive.

kwanatic
12-14-2011, 04:39 PM
I don't really think Flatt skated well on the GP. She was relatively shaky (and sometimes really shaky) and doing watered down technical content. I don't think judges are sending her a major message as much as she just didn't put anything out there that was very competitive.


It's true--she hasn't performed well--but even with the watered down content, skaters who have done well on the GP in previous years are usually held up over 3rd and 4th tier skaters even when they don't skate well. She was terrible at Skate Canada and rightly deserved her 10th place finish. At COR she wasn't up to form but she wasn't so terrible; the judges could have padded her score to place her 5th or 6th...that's what they usually do for well-known medal contenders.

Rachael has lost her edge with the judges...completely. Her PCS have taken a nosedive and when your jumps aren't there, the PCS is what's relied on to keep skaters out of the bottom and it's what can put them on top Ex: Akiko Suzuki was held out of the top for so long b/c she never received the PCS she was due...now that she's getting them, she's winning titles and is a favorite going into worlds.

For Rachael, the big question is how will she be received by the US judges? The judges boosted Rachael up for so long...now that she's clearly not had the success of Alissa, Mirai or Ashely, what will they do? Try to boost her up or just let her fall like they did Kimmie?:shuffle: January is going to be interesting...

RD
12-14-2011, 05:05 PM
For Rachael, the big question is how will she be received by the US judges? The judges boosted Rachael up for so long...now that she's clearly not had the success of Alissa, Mirai or Ashely, what will they do?

Depends on how she performs, right? But if she continues to struggle I'd be surprised if they still put her on the world team. But even last year she had issues...I think the honest truth is that she has already peaked as a competitor. And after Flattgate last year, who knows how much damage was truly done to her rep? She may never recover. She may be done for good...


Try to boost [Flatt] up or just let her fall like they did Kimmie?:shuffle:

At 2007 Nationals- many people seem to forget that EHughes was ONE FALL AWAY from the title...

Frau Muller
12-14-2011, 05:15 PM
....For Rachael,....what will they do? Try to boost her up or just let her fall like they did Kimmie?:shuffle: January is going to be interesting...

I thought that Kimmie fell all by herself @ 07/08 US Nationals. You are right, though, that certain "pretty and leggy" skaters can get a 'prop-up boost' via the PCS...and benefits-of-a-doubt, even if unconsciously, by judges.

berthesghost
12-14-2011, 05:58 PM
At 2007 Nationals- many people seem to forget that EHughes was ONE FALL AWAY from the title...Personally, I don't think anyone is forgetting anything. Emily ended up just where the US judges considered her in 07: the US's second best skater.

The thing I remember most about o7 nats was the SP, and all the complaints afterward online about Kimmie's 3/3 being recognized but Rachael's seemingly less URed one not.

What do you do when the current WC skates so-so at nats? Apparently, not give the title to an unknown junior, nor a less talented, less internationally respected skater. Wasn't that the year Alissa won the LP and the bronze? How many falls away from the titled was she? :lol:

RD
12-14-2011, 06:03 PM
^ I'm trying to say that if Hughes hadn't fallen, she would have won. The judges didn't do anything here, it was all on her. She could have made it happen, but didn't.

In other words...the WC was quite beatable.

kwanatic
12-14-2011, 06:27 PM
^I'm referring to after 2007. In 2008 the judges stopped looking Kimmie's way. By then Mao, Miki and Yu-Na were on the scene and Kimmie's admittedly unattractive skating fell out of favor with the judges. Same thing happened at US nationals. The competition in 2008 was full of newcomers (Mirai, Caroline, Ashley, Rachael, etc.). The newbies had tough jumps, flexible spins, charisma and spunk...Kimmie was out of the mix that year and really didn't have a prayer of staying in, even with a national and world title under her belt. There wasn't anything remarkable about her or her skating to keep her in the running...the judges knew that and, as a result, didn't put forth the effort to boost her up in the standings. The next year she grew more and gained more weight, lost her ability to rotate and ended up completely falling off...she hasn't been back since and I doubt if she ever will.

Rachael is hitting the same wall. Without that Kwan-like consistency she had for those few years, Rachael has nothing to fall back on. She's rather plain in terms of her appearance, her presence on the ice, her style, her jumps and spins, and her performance. Even when Mirai or Alissa mess up, they still have things you can look at as redeeming qualities (great spins, extension, flexibility, charm or what have you). Unfortunately, Rachael isn't that kind of skater.

As I said, even if she performs well the international judges have made it clear that they aren't interested in her anymore. Her chances of placing well are very low...add that to the fact that she hasn't been hitting her jumps and that's just a recipe for a finish out of the top 10...

Cheylana
12-14-2011, 07:04 PM
^^ Agree she will lose favor with the US judges this year, but I don't know about outside the top 10...this isn't Russian Nationals, we don't have that many talented and consistent jumping beans to displace her. If she shows up to Nationals healthy and reasonably well-trained, then 4-6th place is most likely.

haribobo
12-14-2011, 08:17 PM
Flatt's FS TES of 44.69 at Cup of Russia is lower than Zawadzki at the same event (45), Siraj (56), Cesario (47), Forte (54), Dunne (49), Jiang (51), Daniels (53), Baga (48), Keiser (62), Zhang (54), Wang (56) at Sectionals, in addition to Alissa Czisny, Ashley Wagner, Mirai Nagasu at multiple competitions this season, Vanessa Lam at JGPF (46). So that's 15 skaters capable of bettering her tech score. Unless Rachael gets huge PCS scores, its very possible for her to end up out of the top 10, seeing as Cup of Russia was actually a fairly successful FS for her. She may get a few more points added on due to friendlier Nationals judging and I'm sure not every skater from Sectionals will repeat their success- but still...

RD
12-14-2011, 10:12 PM
Even with her struggles...I must say Flatt out of the top 10 at Nationals is VERY unlikely. Probably bottom half of top 10 (and if she hits, podium finish not out of the question)

Triple Butz
12-14-2011, 10:35 PM
On top of what's already been stated, Alissa was examined by the official USFSA team doctors, who confirmed that she wouldn't run the risk of worsening the injury by attempting to compete on it.

This. End of story. Flatt was fined for not disclosing her injury.

Triple Butz
12-14-2011, 10:37 PM
The injury on the flip could very well be why Czisny did 3Lo in her SP for the first time and didn't attempt a 3F in her FS.

She also attempted the 3loop at TEB in the SP:

http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpfra2011/gpfra2011_Ladies_SP_Scores.pdf

kwanette
12-14-2011, 11:06 PM
^There was still about a week until the ladies' SP in Torino when Michelle withdrew.

Emily was going to 2006 Worlds as part of the "bye" so she was ready and in tip-top shape.

haribobo
12-14-2011, 11:12 PM
Even with her struggles...I must say Flatt out of the top 10 at Nationals is VERY unlikely. Probably bottom half of top 10 (and if she hits, podium finish not out of the question)

As you wish, but take note that the skaters coming out of sectionals are significantly stronger on the whole this year. Last year at Mids we had Czisny winning and then Bell (39 TES in her FS), West (37), and Khazova (35). Easterns had Cesario having to withdraw (47), Bulanhagui (43), Traunero (41), Forte (40), Narita (37), and then Lam from Pacs (50), Kahle (37), Zhou (37), and Kawamura (33).

So going into Nationals last year there was only 1 skater besides Czisny who scored over 44 in TES in their Sectionals FS. This year there were 10, and some of those were way over 44. :eek: Not at all safe to assume that anyone is going to coast through with a subpar performance this year, if you ask me. Flatt as she has been seen this year is not really superior to most of the skaters coming out of Sectionals.