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View Full Version : Should Takahashi remove the quad from his SP?



Vash01
12-11-2011, 06:10 PM
I love Takahashi's skating, but it always pains me to see him unable to do a quad cleanly on a consistent basis. Since there are just 3 jumps in the SP, a mistake on the quad clearly hurts him a lot. I wonder if he should follow Lysacek's example and get rid of the quad at least in the SP? If he places well in the SP, he will have a better chance of standing on the podium in the end. In the GPF he was almost at the bottom, and only a stellar LP performance (and mistakes by Abbott & Fernandez) raised him to #2. I have given up on the gold; it's already in Chan's hands, but a silver at worlds would be a solid accomplishment for Daisuke.

judgejudy27
12-11-2011, 06:17 PM
I agree he should. There is no chance of him winning gold unless Chan falls atleast 6 times (and even a 6 fall Chan would likely be propped up above a clean Takahashi by the Chan squad aka judges somehow) so he needs to focus on giving himself the best chance at the silver and that IMO is a clean short program, which would be removing the quad.

Vash01
12-11-2011, 06:24 PM
I agree he should. There is no chance of him winning gold unless Chan falls atleast 6 times (and even a 6 fall Chan would likely be propped up above a clean Takahashi by the Chan squad aka judges somehow) so he needs to focus on giving himself the best chance at the silver and that IMO is a clean short program, which would be removing the quad.

The cushion has grown bigger/thicker :lol: Didn't you say earlier that he has a 5-fall cushion? Now it is 6! I think it won't matter how anybody skates because Chan will get the gold (and for the sake of the sport, I hope he skates well enough to avoid any arguments).

So Daisuke can only try for a silver. IMO his major competition may be the young skaters- Fernandez (this year) and Hanyu (2014). At least this year he still has the artistic advantage over both, so I think it will be better for him to play it safe in the SP to get a top 3 placement, then pull out all stops in the LP. I just don't see him getting consistent with the quad at this stage. He is already 25 and he has been working on a quad for many years now.

judgejudy27
12-11-2011, 06:27 PM
Yeah I agree. He should just go for a clean short, but try the quad in the LP. I think that will be enough to hold off Fernandez and Hanyu for the silver this year, but by next year it might not be. It will be an intersting battle for the silver and bronze medals heading towards Sochi.

ltnskater
12-11-2011, 06:30 PM
Absolutely not, especially if he is looking for a medal higher than bronze in Sochi (I think he is aiming for gold, as he should be). Skate Canada was already an indication that doing a short without a quad, even as a skater with a reputation will no longer be enough to win against someone who really had no real reputation/titles. (he skated clean, yet was 2nd to Javier, and this was with Patrick finishing 3rd with mistakes)

The standard has risen so substantially high this season, that maybe, if he wants a world silver, this season ok, go clean in the short, and put the quad in the long because it's not consistent, but he needs to continually put the quad in the short in competition, if he is to gain any confidence in it. Virtually all male skaters have the quad in their arsenal now, at Cup of Russia, only one skater did not attempt the quad in the long, and if this trend continues, an Evan Lysacek program with just triples simply will not be enough in Sochi to win anymore.

This is not just internationally, even within Japan, he could be fighting for a national title with Yuzuru Hanyu, and Kozuka (whose quad looks to be getting more consistent). Hanyu nearly beat him here at the GPF, had he landed the sal, he would've placed ahead of Daisuke, and the way this season is going, the quad is becoming more and more of a necessity! Probably a dream season for Evgeni Plushenko, as he seems to love the quad and thinks one shouldn't win without it, but maybe not so much if all of his competitors are now able to do it... with much more complex and difficult programs as well.

Seerek
12-11-2011, 06:48 PM
Probably should keep it in for the short program, but only as the jump out of steps ( the judges don't seem to be too strict on preceding steps if it's a quadruple).

Meredith
12-11-2011, 08:05 PM
At the 2010 Olympics Takahashi was quite emphatic that he include the quad, in the LP at least. It seemed quite important to him. Whether he includes the quad the SP is his decision, and his only.

Whether he includes the quad or not, I love watching him skate and given the thought and effort behind his programs, that's not going to change anytime soon.

caseyedwards
12-11-2011, 08:27 PM
His quad in the LP was the cleanest all season! His strategy of not doing quads in SP's and waiting for the long wasn't working out because he rarely ever had clean quads in LPs. So even though his SP quad was < his LP quad wasn't < and it just seems to show that for a lot of people if you want to do a good quad all the time SP and LP make sense. Now Abbott has not done a quad in SP but his LP quad was very good so that is not the rule for all. It just seemed to work out that the quad was the best for Takahashi when he tried it in the short. The SP problems for Daisuke had to do with no combo and if he did a combo he would have scored much higher. I think he should definitely try quads in SP and LP at Japanese Nationals or 4CC if he goes there.

Triple Butz
12-11-2011, 08:34 PM
His quad in the LP was the cleanest all season! His strategy of not doing quads in SP's and waiting for the long wasn't working out because he rarely ever had clean quads in LPs. So even though his SP quad was < his LP quad wasn't < and it just seems to show that for a lot of people if you want to do a good quad all the time SP and LP make sense. Now Abbott has not done a quad in SP but his LP quad was very good so that is not the rule for all. It just seemed to work out that the quad was the best for Takahashi when he tried it in the short. The SP problems for Daisuke had to do with no combo and if he did a combo he would have scored much higher. I think he should definitely try quads in SP and LP at Japanese Nationals or 4CC if he goes there.

So when something happens once in one competition, it then becomes a rule?

There have been plenty of times in Takahashi's career where he has landed quads in the LP without ever attempting one in the short program.

caseyedwards
12-11-2011, 08:36 PM
Not a lot since his surgery. All that applied since his return in 2009.