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Libertango
12-11-2011, 05:03 PM
I prefer V&T but they seriously need to add transitions to their programs!

Zemgirl
12-11-2011, 05:26 PM
S&S for now, because they're more developed artistically and have a great variety of programs. V&T are still new. If I had to compare S&S during their second season (05-06) and V&T (11-12) I'd pick V&T.

Funny that you mention 05-06 as an example (I mean, I do see "why" - their second season compared to V/T's second season). That was the year when I completely fell in lurrrrrve with S/S because of their marvellous Camera SP (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2M-BTorUZVE). I thought that program was the first sign of what was to come - first sign of their originality and unique transitions, which, until that point, were pretty nonexistant in pairs skating. IMO.
It's also worth noting that when S/S teamed up, they did not have nearly as much experience (or name recognition) as V/T. So it's no wonder that the latter have progressed quickly on the tech side, and it's to Aliona and Robin's credit that they were trying to be innovative from a very early point in their partnership.

Vash01
12-11-2011, 05:37 PM
It's also worth noting that when S/S teamed up, they did not have nearly as much experience (or name recognition) as V/T. So it's no wonder that the latter have progressed quickly on the tech side, and it's to Aliona and Robin's credit that they were trying to be innovative from a very early point in their partnership.

I don't know much about Robin- how long he was skating pairs, but Aliona was competing at the senior level since she was something like 15-16, so she had plenty of experience when they paired up. Typically it takes any pair a long time to learn to skate together as a pair, with B&S being the sole exception. I think V&T had to make a lot of adjustments because each was used to doing things a certain way with another partner, and having a long experience would make it harder to learn a different way- JMO.

Zemgirl
12-11-2011, 05:43 PM
I don't know much about Robin- how long he was skating pairs, but Aliona was competing at the senior level since she was something like 15-16, so she had plenty of experience when they paired up. Typically it takes any pair a long time to learn to skate together as a pair, with B&S being the sole exception. I think V&T had to make a lot of adjustments because each was used to doing things a certain way with another partner, and having a long experience would make it harder to learn a different way- JMO.
Aliona was only 19 when they paired up, though, and hadn't achieved all that much at the senior level. That's not comparable to either Maxim or Tatiana (other than that both ladies had skated with Stas ;)). I'm not sure Robin had any senior experience at the time. I have read that they had quite a few adjustments to make, as they had been taught different technique.

That B/S were able to skate so well so quickly, especially considering the horrific injury Elena had suffered, is just mind boggling.

Cherub721
12-11-2011, 05:54 PM
I don't know much about Robin- how long he was skating pairs, but Aliona was competing at the senior level since she was something like 15-16, so she had plenty of experience when they paired up.

I decided to look up Robin's wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Szolkowy) entry... some interesting stuff I didn't know. He didn't meet his father until 2008 (had only seen pics until then). Robin was German national champion in 2001 with Claudia Rauschenbach (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claudia_Rauschenbach) (randomness... she is Katarina Witt's niece, Anett P÷tzsch's daughter, and the step-daughter of Axel Rauschenbach, who used to skate with Mandy Woetzel, world champion with Ingo Steuer... how is that for six degrees of separation? :lol:). Most of their experience was in juniors, though. It also says Robin competed in synchro for a while to keep up his skills.

I wish I knew more about Robin. He seems very reserved unlike Trankov who wears his emotions on his sleeve, lol. I knew of Aljona from her partnership with Stanislav Morozov, and for the first couple of years of S&S I didn't think he was deserving to be her partner... now I would rank him as the best man in the world.

Aljona did have a lot of senior experience... even skated in SLC with Morozov. They were coached by Galina Kukhar. At that time she was coaching some divine pairs girls like Julia Obertas and Tatiana Volosozhar, plus Galina Efremenko (nee Maniachenko) in singles. Morozov retired due to injuries, but he stayed on as a coach, and eventually came out of retirement when Volosozhar needed a partner. Does anyone know what Kukhar is doing now? She deserves so much credit for creating such brilliant girls from scratch, in Ukraine, without the money and training conditions of the Russians.

jenny12
12-11-2011, 06:21 PM
I prefer V&T's line and movement on the ice, but I voted for S&S because their programs are a lot better at this point and admire their ability to do difficult choreography and interpret interesting music. I think V&T could be a truly great team if they got a different choreographer.

liv
12-11-2011, 07:18 PM
Never liked S/S before this program. I didn't find them innovative etc., just messy and boring, but with this program, well, I really liked it. They've grown on me.

V/T. I"m a classical Russian fan. Always have been, always will be, so i slightly prefer these two. I think I"ll like them more in the future, but they're getting there.

So happy to see such a good rivalry shaping up as it brings out the best in the skaters and we all win when that happens. As seen last night, it'll force both teams to really have to bring their best. I am loving pairs again.

julieann
12-11-2011, 10:02 PM
I'm not sure I would say Aliona had a lot of senior expeirience before Robin. She and Morozov didn't set the skating world on fire. The only worlds they went to they got 9th and were 15th at the Olympics. 6th and 7th at Skate Canada and Cup of Russia and others. Robin was only in Jrs before Aliona and didn't do very well.

V/T on the other hand had significant experience. Both won many medals in the GP and finished as high as 4th in the world. You really can't compare two teams' second season against another until you look at their background.

Louis
12-11-2011, 11:40 PM
I really like both teams.

Savchenko and Szolkowy have so much choreography in their programs. I wish they were more rewarded in PCS for it, relative to V&T, or I fear the "message" sent from the judges will be to dumb down the program and up the technical content. To me, S&S really deserve a 9.50-10 for choreography, while no other pair deserves more than an 8.5.

That doesn't mean V&T don't deserve to beat them. Indeed, it might be a better strategy to skate an easier but faster and more exciting program where the focus is more on amplitude of individual elements rather than complexity between the elements. The skating skills mark should be sky high, and the +3s add up.

I just wish the individual PCS marks would reflect the respective strategy of each v. having near-identical marks for each.

ballettmaus
12-12-2011, 01:50 AM
Posting a general reply to all the Robin's-previous-experience-posts.
While Aliona might not have competed as much, I'm sure she had the better training conditions! Robin trained in Germany all his life and skating isn't a popular sport, so even if their experience had been equal, I would assume Robin's level wouldn't have been near Aliona's due to training conditions. She was probably also taught a different dediction to sport with sport coming first, everything else second - only assuming here - which I can say almost definitely wouldn't have been the case for Robin. Soccer seems to be the only sport here where it's accepted by society and worthwhile to put the sport before everything else.

Vozed S/S; a no brainer because I'm patriotic ;) but also really like them and their skating!

Proustable
12-12-2011, 01:59 AM
Given that the top two Ukranian pairs ladies have both complained about the conditions in the Ukraine, I'd be terrified if Germany's were worse.

I think V/T have IT. I think S/S have more. If Aliona had Tatiana's positions or if V/T had S/S' programs, though.... man, that would be thrilling.

Right now, S/S win - they're least interesting LP is still more interesting than V/T's best LP at the moment.

rfisher
12-12-2011, 02:44 AM
:lol: Considering V/T have only had two LPs, that's not much of a comparison.

Proustable
12-12-2011, 02:45 AM
:lol: Considering V/T have only had two LPs, that's not much of a comparison.

Oh, I know. But a further corolary to that is that they have Morosov as a choreographer, so it's doubtful that they'll get much better. And given that they're getting sky high PCS now anyway, why should they? Just get those elements and levels up and wait for S/S err.

Domshabfan
12-12-2011, 04:23 AM
Honestly, the best program this year is by K/S. S/S have unique music but to be honest is not that great, V/T have not so unique music and ok choreography. I know people like to talk about how different S/S music really are, but i think they are trying hard to be too different at times. I am not impressed by Music of Pina(don't care even if it goes on to win oscar in music category), they could do better.

Proustable
12-12-2011, 04:24 AM
Honestly, the best program this year is by K/S. S/S have unique music but to be honest is not that great, V/T have not so unique music and ok choreography. I know people like to talk about how different S/S music really are, but i think they are trying hard to be too different at times. I am not impressed by Music of Pina(don't care even if it goes on to win oscar in music category), they could do better.

I think there are worst things than trying too hard to be different.

But I love K/S's LP too. I hope they win worlds, frankly.