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nlloyd
12-19-2011, 06:38 AM
I'd also be interested in learning why Patrick isn't able to cover his expenses i.e. in what sort of income he makes from sponsorships, prize money, funding etc . I remember a few years ago an elite level skater encountered some sort of emotional hardship, and a well-meaning but misguided group of FSUers began talking about fundraising for this skater, until a more knowledgeable poster informed them that the skater certainly didn't need it. Anyone remember this? Anyway, with regard to Patrick, why doesn't he do the Canadian SOI if he needs the money?

I also find it difficult to believe his comments about being better funded in China (where BTW he may have had to return much of his prize money to the federation) were mere musings. They appear to be directed at Canadian sporting culture, which is fine. Many of us rue the focus on hockey (although his concerns seem to be more narrowly focused on himself). However, they also came across as a criticism of Skate Canada which, with the best intention in the world, cannot provide the kind of funding Patrick is looking for. He seemed to be biting the hand that feeds him. Whoever first encouraged/condoned Patrick's "speaking his mind" in his battle with Brian Joubert a few years ago, made a real error in judgment. He has consistently put his foot in his mouth since then and thus undermines his own opportunity for future funding as well as the appeal of the sport generally. It would be ironic if it was Skate Canada.

Zemgirl
12-19-2011, 07:28 AM
There was a newspaper article and a big discussion about how his training costs are at least $150K/year, and that doesn't include the expenses of two households.
There's no reason to include the expense of two households; the Toronto home can hardly be considered one of Patrick's expenses, and many skaters live on their own where they're training, and support themselves by doing shows and coaching. And are training costs normally that high? There are skaters whose families are probably nowhere near as financially comfortable as the Chans, and they seem to be managing.


Whoever first encouraged/condoned Patrick's "speaking his mind" in his battle with Brian Joubert a few years ago, made a real error in judgment. He has consistently put his foot in his mouth since then and thus undermines his own opportunity for future funding as well as the appeal of the sport generally. It would be ironic if it was Skate Canada.
I tend to agree; Joubert was a convenient target, and Skate Canada officials enabled it while the Canadian media encouraged it. I wouldn't even call it a battle, since Joubert was clearly not interested in a war of words; it was very one-sided. After that, Chan was sticking his foot in his mouth on a regular basis (Plushy's old, Johnny Weir's K&C behavior was bad, real men don't do Biellmanns, etc.), and I suppose it was only a matter of time before the criticism was turned on a Canadian target rather than a foreign one.

Marco
12-19-2011, 09:11 AM
seriously, that spin article only made things worse with its bogus excuses. With the economy the way it is and people losing their homes, are we really suppose to feel so bad for patty because he has to sleep in the den when visiting His parents, that we forget all the things he said about being under appreciated at home and how they'd sacrifice less in china. Yeah right. Like the Chinese skaters's parents all have two bedroom second homes. :rolleyes:

berthesghost, I think you are just going to cause yourself a lot of grieve if you insist on very strictly reading (or reading between the lines) of what was said by someone who is 21 and is known to be somewhat free-spirited with his words. :)

berthesghost
12-19-2011, 01:03 PM
berthesghost, I think you are just going to cause yourself a lot of grieve if you insist on very strictly reading (or reading between the lines) of what was said by someone who is 21 and is known to be somewhat free-spirited with his words. :):lol: no, ita with your assessment of the interview, and find this all very :watch:

VarBar
12-19-2011, 01:27 PM
I wouldn't even call it a battle, since Joubert was clearly not interested in a war of words; it was very one-sided. After that, Chan was sticking his foot in his mouth on a regular basis (Plushy's old, Johnny Weir's K&C behavior was bad, real men don't do Biellmanns, etc.), and I suppose it was only a matter of time before the criticism was turned on a Canadian target rather than a foreign one.

Well, Joubert didn't give me the impression when I read his comments here that he was not interested in a war of words.:lol:

http://www.lejdd.fr/Sport/Sports-d-hiver/Actualite/Joubert-les-chichis-et-les-chochottes-172184/

Zemgirl
12-19-2011, 02:40 PM
Well, Joubert didn't give me the impression when I read his comments here that he was not interested in a war of words.:lol:

http://www.lejdd.fr/Sport/Sports-d-hiver/Actualite/Joubert-les-chichis-et-les-chochottes-172184/
I'm not sure those comments (which are disgusting, if they were actually made) were ever confirmed by any reputable source. Regardless, the article has a February 2010 date, so I fail to see what it has to do with Chan's comments and behavior around the time of 2009 Worlds.

walei
12-19-2011, 02:45 PM
:lol: no, ita with your assessment of the interview, and find this all very :watch:

It just seems that you are making this whole issue and any additional information to paint the parties involved as worse of a picture as possible.

Patrick is a World Champion is what is supposed to be one of the most beloved sports in Canada and he is still struggling financially. I still maintain that this is the root of the issue here. Patrick with all of his success still cannot provide for his loved ones and made a comment that was not carefully thought through.

VarBar
12-19-2011, 08:36 PM
I'm not sure those comments (which are disgusting, if they were actually made) were ever confirmed by any reputable source. Regardless, the article has a February 2010 date, so I fail to see what it has to do with Chan's comments and behavior around the time of 2009 Worlds.

But do we have a denial to that from reputable sources? And do we have a denial from reliable sources to Amodio stating, as he was quoted by a journal, that Joubert has an outdated skating coming from the times of Yagudin? lol

If you fail to see the connection between the comments of the two, okay, it means there is none.;)

For what it's worth, I've always perceived Joubert as a nice person in spite of silly comments he may have made in frustration, anger or hurt and, much to your disappointment, I do think Chan is a good kid too.:P


Many of us rue the focus on hockey (although his concerns seem to be more narrowly focused on himself). However, they also came across as a criticism of Skate Canada which, with the best intention in the world, cannot provide the kind of funding Patrick is looking for. He seemed to be biting the hand that feeds him. Whoever first encouraged/condoned Patrick's "speaking his mind" in his battle with Brian Joubert a few years ago, made a real error in judgment. He has consistently put his foot in his mouth since then and thus undermines his own opportunity for future funding as well as the appeal of the sport generally. It would be ironic if it was Skate Canada.

It's not unusual for athletes from marginal sports like figure skating to feel and state they and the sports they are doing are unappreciated in their countries as well as feel and state they would be better off in other countries. But if Patrick committed such an impardonable crime, let them cut all his funding and rechannel it to Reynolds or Rogozine for instance who seem to be so well-spoken all the time if that's the criterion for funding and appeal of the sport. lol

nlloyd
12-19-2011, 10:14 PM
VarBar, it's not so much that sponsors require their athletes to be perfect, as much as the fact that Canadian sponsors may be less interested in sponsoring a Canadian athlete who implies he would rather skate for another country (a country in which the training was better funded and he garnered more appreciation).

overedge
12-19-2011, 10:55 PM
Patrick is a World Champion is what is supposed to be one of the most beloved sports in Canada and he is still struggling financially. I still maintain that this is the root of the issue here. Patrick with all of his success still cannot provide for his loved ones and made a comment that was not carefully thought through.

I know what you are getting at, but IMHO there's a difference between struggling financially to cover one's training costs, and struggling financially to provide for one's family. Since Patrick's dad is a lawyer and his mother has a university degree, I think they are capable of earning a living for themselves without relying on him. I can definitely see there being an issue if he can't cover the costs of his training by himself, or with his family's help, but I'm a little more ambivalent as to whether support for his skating should include support for his family as well.

NorthernDancers
12-19-2011, 11:05 PM
I have to say that I think everyone is missing the bigger picture. The real story is not about Chan. What everyone should be talking about is how do we increase sponsorship for sport in Canada? How can circumstances be made easier for parents who foot so much of the bill for skaters? What breaks or incentives can exist for people and/or corporations to fund developing athletes (and not just the top 5 in Senior)? What can Skate Canada do to encourage this? Pursuing sport at a high level pays dividends for the general public. Sport builds leaders, encourages excellence in life, inspires others to get active which improves the health and well-being of more than just the elite athlete, builds community, and so on. There is a broader interest in promoting and funding sports. With Chan, this should not even be a discussion. His fees and expenses for skating and traveling should be covered at his level.

We don't always produce the best champions because the best cannot always afford to stay in the sport during the developing years, and sometimes the families are just not willing to make the gigantic sacrifices to help their children. I suspect that is part of the reason why the Ladies in Canada do not produce results. It would be interesting to know how many young potential we lose along the way who would otherwise have the ability to develop into champions. But when looking at events with 50+ girls at Sectionals, and only the top 4 go on, I can see why some parents bail out too soon. We need to find ways to better fund the sport so that the best, brightest, most potential and most committed and in love with the sport get to stay around and develop. You want to know why figure skating is on the decline? It's just too expensive, and so many families are not willing to pay the price the way so many others have done before them. Hockey is cheaper, and is more social/team building than figure skating.

flowerpower
12-20-2011, 12:31 AM
^
You make some very good points.

Athlete funding is better in Quebec than in other provinces, from what I've read. Certainly Meagan Duhamel has commented that she is funded better than ever, now that she trains in Quebec. My guess would be that "national" pride (perhaps somewhat politically-motivated) factors into the Quebec athlete funding model, although Quebec also has a more socialistic approach overall. (Any thoughts from Quebecers/Quebecois?) But this may be something for the rest of the country to think about.

As you say, there is a benefit to society when our athletes provide inspiration, and become role models for an active lifestyle, persistence and commitment. I don't think Patrick or other top athletes should be fully funded by the public, but we can do more to help them IMO. Perhaps rather than using public funds directly, we can do more to create sponsorship incentives through the tax system (yes, that still implies public support, but structured in such a way that private corporations are taking the lead). There must be various creative funding approaches. Any thoughts?

overedge
12-20-2011, 01:03 AM
I have to say that I think everyone is missing the bigger picture. The real story is not about Chan. What everyone should be talking about is how do we increase sponsorship for sport in Canada? How can circumstances be made easier for parents who foot so much of the bill for skaters? What breaks or incentives can exist for people and/or corporations to fund developing athletes (and not just the top 5 in Senior)? What can Skate Canada do to encourage this? Pursuing sport at a high level pays dividends for the general public. Sport builds leaders, encourages excellence in life, inspires others to get active which improves the health and well-being of more than just the elite athlete, builds community, and so on. There is a broader interest in promoting and funding sports.

I agree, but funding sports should not just mean funding the top athletes, or the developing athletes. It should be funding participation at every level of the sport. IMHO this is a huge problem with programs like Own The Podium. Funding the Olympic-level athletes by taking funding away from the participatory levels is a big mistake, because those Olympic-level athletes were grassroots-level participants when they started. There needs to be better funding for everyone, not just for those at Chan's level.

numbers123
12-20-2011, 01:08 AM
I agree, but funding sports should not just mean funding the top athletes, or the developing athletes. It should be funding participation at every level of the sport. IMHO this is a huge problem with programs like Own The Podium. Funding the Olympic-level athletes by taking funding away from the participatory levels is a big mistake, because those Olympic-level athletes were grassroots-level participants when they started. There needs to be better funding for everyone, not just for those at Chan's level.

Just the figure skating athletes?

Japanfan
12-20-2011, 01:35 AM
Athlete funding is better in Quebec than in other provinces, from what I've read. Certainly Meagan Duhamel has commented that she is funded better than ever, now that she trains in Quebec. My guess would be that "national" pride (perhaps somewhat politically-motivated) factors into the Quebec athlete funding model, although Quebec also has a more socialistic approach overall. (Any thoughts from Quebecers/Quebecois?) But this may be something for the rest of the country to think about.


Quebec has better social programs in general - for example, universal daycare (I'm quite sure of this).




As you say, there is a benefit to society when our athletes provide inspiration, and become role models for an active lifestyle, persistence and commitment. I don't think Patrick or other top athletes should be fully funded by the public, but we can do more to help them IMO. Perhaps rather than using public funds directly, we can do more to create sponsorship incentives through the tax system (yes, that still implies public support, but structured in such a way that private corporations are taking the lead). There must be various creative funding approaches. Any thoughts?

While it's true that athletes are role models, so are people in plenty of other occupations who don't earn very much money or have sponsorships.

Most athletes in most sports don't get wealthy and most skaters involved in figure skating have families with above average incomes. And elite skaters usually have a career in the sport once they retire (as coaches, commentators, show skaters, choreographers) that will pay them a generous income. Just because there was a time when skaters could buy mansions and fancy cars doesn't mean it should be that way.

Where there is a need for funding is among talented athletes who can't foot the bill on their own. So this is where I'd like to see corporations/sponsors provide support - though I think they do already?
Mike Weiss's scholarship is one example and I commend him for offering it.