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vodkashot
12-13-2011, 11:06 AM
Crazy judging aside, the good thing about COP is that the skaters know exactly why they lost.

The case of Chan vs Takahashi is very clear:



Yes. Takahashi should also work on his interpretation more, as the protocols clearly indicate that he's not quite at Chan's level when it comes to expressing the music either...

berthesghost
12-13-2011, 02:30 PM
Yes. Takahashi should also work on his interpretation more, as the protocols clearly indicate that he's not quite at Chan's level when it comes to expressing the music either...
According to the gpf judges. It must be frustrating for dai. How exactly do you work on fixing an opinion that is complete bs? :rolleyes:

magnolia
12-13-2011, 02:43 PM
My understanding regarding the rationale for anonymous judging is to avoid the opportunity for judges to be bribed.

If this is the only reason for keeping anonymous judging, then the problem can be resolved by keeping the nationalities of judges anonymous until AFTER the competition.

A system could be worked out that no one can know for sure which judges will sit on the competition, but when the scores are released, the nationalities would be revealed. If judges know that their identities will be revealed after the competition, they will likely keep their favortism in check.

kwanfan1818
12-13-2011, 03:33 PM
My understanding regarding the rationale for anonymous judging is to avoid the opportunity for judges to be bribed.


The rationale for anonymous judging is that the Federations who appoint the judges won't know what scores their judges gave, so that the judges can judge freely and not have to succumb to Federation pressure in fear that they won't be give future assignments.

The simplest way, which is to have independent judges trained by the ISU without any Federation ties, is not something the Federations would vote to do to themselves, and if Cinquanta and Co. had imposed this, like they imposed CoP, it's questionable that they would have retained office.

magnolia
12-13-2011, 04:08 PM
The rationale for anonymous judging is that the Federations who appoint the judges won't know what scores their judges gave, so that the judges can judge freely and not have to succumb to Federation pressure in fear that they won't be give future assignments.

The simplest way, which is to have independent judges trained by the ISU without any Federation ties, is not something the Federations would vote to do to themselves, and if Cinquanta and Co. had imposed this, like they imposed CoP, it's questionable that they would have retained office.

I see.... So anonymous judging protects judges from Federation influence but does not protect skaters from judges' personal favortism (which I would surmise would more often than not be informed by the individual's sense of nationalism). Very difficult.

I guess since all Federations collude in not giving up their right to control judges, Federations are collectively responsible for biased judging in each and every case then.

Vagabond
12-13-2011, 04:31 PM
I have some vague recollection that when anonymous judging was introduced, the plan was to reveal the judges' identities at some later date, like a year afterwards. Am I mistaken, and if not, whatever happened to that concept?

Vash01
12-13-2011, 04:53 PM
Yes. Takahashi should also work on his interpretation more, as the protocols clearly indicate that he's not quite at Chan's level when it comes to expressing the music either...

I am not sure if you are being sarcastic or if this is your honest opinion. Takahashi is the best interpreter of music and the most artistic skater today.

kittyjake5
12-13-2011, 05:32 PM
^Me thinks Vodkashot was being saracastic....

IceIceBaby
12-13-2011, 05:38 PM
^Me thinks Vodkashot was being saracastic....
Or otherwise he has taken too many vodka shots....

vodkashot
12-13-2011, 05:53 PM
I am not sure if you are being sarcastic or if this is your honest opinion. Takahashi is the best interpreter of music and the most artistic skater today.

I was being sarcastic, and was trying to make the point that sometimes the protocols aren't exactly crystal-clear in bequeathing the knowledge on what skaters really need to work on. Another example: see V/T and how close they are to S/S in TR and CH. Um....ok.

To be honest, I am a fan of both Takahashi and Chan, but there's no question in my mind who has the clear edge in interpretation even if the marks often don't reflect this. I was shocked that Takahashi didn't even manage to win a single category of PCS at the GPF LP despite skating so well and Chan stumbling. It just doesn't make sense to me....I mean, to improve his IN relative to Chan's, what can Takahashi do? Takahashi's already got (arguably) the more difficult piece of music to interpret, the choreography is already chock-full of nuances that express the character of the music and judging by the audience reaction (both human and cat), he's extremely effective in selling it to the crowds and making people actually like the polarizing music. I'm not even Takahashi and I feel frustrated....


Or otherwise he has taken too many vodka shots....

Not as many as the judges, it appears ;)

kittyjake5
12-13-2011, 06:54 PM
^^ "both human and cat" I almost choked on my ice tea when I read that. Thanks for the chuckle!

Lara
12-13-2011, 07:15 PM
Chan wins the Lou Marsh award:
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/story/2011/12/13/sp-lou-marsh-chan.html

Hopefully a sign as far as his sponsorship prospects.

FunnyBut
12-13-2011, 07:46 PM
^^ "both human and cat" I almost choked on my ice tea when I read that. Thanks for the chuckle!

Surely, if cats had equitable representation on the judging panel, the result would have been fair :lol:

feraina
12-13-2011, 09:03 PM
Chan wins the Lou Marsh award:
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/story/2011/12/13/sp-lou-marsh-chan.html

Hopefully a sign as far as his sponsorship prospects.

I'm glad to see that the sporting federations have all decided to pitch their support behind Chan at least, and they're taking this whole media fiasco as a "glass half full" situation -- applauding Chan for being able to focus on his sport despite all the media distractions. I was seriously worried how he would do in both his SP and FS, since he spent so much time defending himself at the most inopportune time, and he must have been under a great deal of extra mental pressure. He said himself that he was worried that he'd hear his name boo'ed rather than cheered when he first came out for the SP, and that he was super relieved when his fears didn't come to pass. Good for him! :kickass:

WildRose
12-14-2011, 12:59 AM
Congratulations to Patrick on winning the Lou Marsh Award for Canada's athlete of the year :respec: