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judgejudy27
12-11-2011, 04:03 PM
Chan definitely deserves more recognition for being the most overrated and overscored skater in history. I can understand him feeling underappreicated as he is clearly the all time winner in this category and as such deserves far more press and recognition for that particular title. :lol:

orbitz
12-11-2011, 04:33 PM
Patrick is a special one off product, that you will not see again for some time.

Why is Patrick judged so much better than someone like Takahashi, for example ?

professordeb
12-11-2011, 05:48 PM
Chan definitely deserves more recognition for being the most overrated and overscored skater in history. I can understand him feeling underappreicated as he is clearly the all time winner in this category and as such deserves far more press and recognition for that particular title. :lol:

I can think of a few others who would fit in your overrated and overscored skater in history category :D

judgejudy27
12-11-2011, 06:18 PM
I can think of a few others who would fit in your overrated and overscored skater in history category :D

Who exactly? I cant think of any skater in history who had about a 6 fall cushion on all their nearest rivals, and was treated as if he was the best in every single aspect of the sport even though he/she/they arent.

overedge
12-11-2011, 07:46 PM
One cartoonist's suggestion for Chan:

http://www.theprovince.com/Sports+cartoons+from+Krieger/2926089/story.html?id=2926089

Sylvia
12-11-2011, 08:10 PM
Here's Rosie DiManno's column in the Toronto Star http://www.thestar.com/article/1100306--dimanno-chan-takes-grand-prix-gold-with-pride

Oy, such a molehill kerfuffle blown into a mountain of scuttlebutt, courtesy of a Reuters story that went front-page viral across Canada and then got extra follow-up torque from national papers — calumny by columny — with errors thrown into the mix.

How Chan came to be at the centre of such a rumpus provides an abject lesson in what can result from a perfect storm of elements: an originating story held for three months and re-jigged apparently out of the writer’s control, some incautious quotes from a young man who’s never thought twice about what comes out of his mouth, and an over-the-top pouncing on some bare bones of contention by my profession.

The genuinely unfortunate upshot from this fart-in-a-mitten would be if Chan, burned, altered his amiable and spontaneous nature in response to the criticism. I’m happy to report that is soooo not going to happen.

“No,’’ Chan reassured after his triumph here. “And I know you guys don’t want me to because I’ve heard that many times. I will do my best no to (change). I’ll try to keep my own personality. I’m very honest and I think that’s why it would be very hard for me to change what I say or the way I say it.

“One thing I will do is be more precise about what I’m trying to say and really concentrate on who I’m talking to and what do they want?’’

professordeb
12-11-2011, 08:17 PM
Who exactly? I cant think of any skater in history who had about a 6 fall cushion on all their nearest rivals, and was treated as if he was the best in every single aspect of the sport even though he/she/they arent.

Again with the exaggeration -- now it's SIX friggin falls? :rolleyes: Yep, I can just see it now; people will start quoting that number as the cushion Chan has on his competitors.

skatesindreams
12-11-2011, 08:24 PM
I applaud the articles and posts which have offered "voices of reason" within this thread.

Dragonlady
12-12-2011, 12:52 AM
On Saturday the Toronto Star's Sports section consisted of 14 pages - 12 of which were devoted to The DEAL. For those of you who don't know, it was annonced on Friday that Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment has been sold to Rogers and Bell. MLSE owns the Toronto Maple Leafs hockey franchise, the Toronto Raptors NBA basketball team, and the Toronto FC soccer club. Page 13 contained an article on the Leafs game (1/2 page), an article on the Raptors game (most of the other half of the page), and a half page single column to cover all the other sports news in the world. Three of five small blurbs related to hockey and basketball. Page 14 was the Scoreboard.

Over the past 10 or so years, I've watched the sports sections of all of the Toronto newspapers slowly strip away coverage of most sports until the ONLY thing that seems to be covered is hockey. As a fan of car racing, tennis, gymnastics, skiing, snowboarding, equestrian, swimming, diving, and baseball in addition to figure skating, there is precious little for me since I'd rather watch paint dry than hockey.

Our local CITY-TV station has given us daily updated on Sydney Crosby's concussion since the start of the hockey season. If you watch the TV sportscasts or read the local sports sections of the newspapers, it's difficult to believe that any sport exists other than hockey. Even in the off-season, half the "sports news" which is printed or broadcast, still relates to hockey.

The papers used to cover other sports. Even when events are happening in Toronto, there is little, if any coverage. The Royal Winter Fair draws top horses from around the world and is one of the top show jumping events in the World. Other than an occasional picture of a horse going over a jump and the requsite caption below it, there is little, if any coverage of the Royal.

Last weekend was the Grey Cup football game. Grey Cup week used to be a big hairy deal in Canada, akin to Superbowl week in the US. Cities competed for the event, people rode horses into hotel lobbies. It was a huge event with parades and parties. I didn't even know last Sunday was Grey Cup day until my FIL said he was looking forward to the game. But I knew Sydney Crosby had been hit by a teammate in practice and was out of the line-up again.

What's sadly lacking are sports reporters with any sort of knowledge of sports other than hockey. The ONLY reason Eric Lamaze and Hickstead were named Canada's Athlete of the Year is because the poor horse collapsed and died. Otherwise we wouldn't even have known he was competing.

At least Patrick has managed to focus the attention of sports reporters on something other than hockey, no matter how briefly.

Japanfan
12-12-2011, 01:04 AM
Why is Patrick judged so much better than someone like Takahashi, for example ?

To use the GFP Men's LP as an example, Patrick started out with a higher base mark by 5 points. He also made sure to tack another jump on to his second quad toe to make sure it counted and had the presence of mind of throw in a triple-triple combo. Plus, he rotated his quads.

Smart CoP skaters train for such scenarios and are able to keep the math in mind.

To compete with Patrick in TES skaters need to up their base mark. For example, Takahashi did not do a three-jump combo.

The PCS judging is more arguable, of course. But I think Patrick was only two points above Takahashi in PCS in the GFP LP. That makes him beatable and Takahashi would have done it if he'd increased the difficulty of his TES just a little.

Mevrouw
12-12-2011, 02:03 AM
This afternoon, the NBC commentator (man) said that Patrick started out higher and 'made it closer than it needed to be' when he made mistakes. Interesting.

kwanfan1818
12-12-2011, 12:48 PM
Who exactly? I cant think of any skater in history who had about a 6 fall cushion on all their nearest rivals, and was treated as if he was the best in every single aspect of the sport even though he/she/they arent.
Do I hear 7?

Dragonlady
12-12-2011, 04:09 PM
Between Chan and Moir, I'm going to stop reading now.

professordeb
12-12-2011, 04:25 PM
Between Chan and Moir, I'm going to stop reading now.

:lol: Might be a good idea. Then again ...

Marco
12-13-2011, 08:19 AM
To use the GFP Men's LP as an example, Patrick started out with a higher base mark by 5 points. He also made sure to tack another jump on to his second quad toe to make sure it counted and had the presence of mind of throw in a triple-triple combo. Plus, he rotated his quads.

Smart CoP skaters train for such scenarios and are able to keep the math in mind.

To compete with Patrick in TES skaters need to up their base mark. For example, Takahashi did not do a three-jump combo.

The PCS judging is more arguable, of course. But I think Patrick was only two points above Takahashi in PCS in the GFP LP. That makes him beatable and Takahashi would have done it if he'd increased the difficulty of his TES just a little.

Crazy judging aside, the good thing about COP is that the skaters know exactly why they lost.

The case of Chan vs Takahashi is very clear:

Chan attempted harder things and his attempts were good enough to count. He maxed out on the allowed combos and backloaded. His jumps and spins were of better quality.

On PCS, Takahashi might be a great skater, but his programs pale in comparison to Chan's in complexity, and yes this can affect SS and PE because Chan would have had more opportunities to demonstrates his skills when there's more going on. (i.e. more change in direction, more skating on 1 foot etc)