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overedge
12-10-2011, 02:27 AM
Yes, but what I was getting at is how stupid it is to say it was prior to the GPF. The article was published before the GPF. Of course the interview took place before it. That's what we like to call "Captain Stating the Obvious"

:lol: Got it.

bek
12-10-2011, 06:37 AM
Chan may not explain or express himself well or it might be that the media is looking for off the cuff remarks that might sound egotistical or whatever, but I fail to see how he is scored or falls relates to the actual comments made here.

In some respects I agree with Chan - skating is an expensive sport. China does have a system that supports its athletes to be able to train without a huge financial commitment. If he skated in China, he would have some advantages that he does not have in North America. Whether we as a figure skating board recognize it or not, hockey is bigger than figure skating in Canada. I believe that he was trying to give a reference for the recognition aspect, not say that Canada does not recognize him, just that hockey stars are more recognizable. And since YuNa is from Korea and was a world champion at the same time of Chan's success, it does not surprise me that he is recognized in Korea. Also the major interaction he would have with fans in Korea will be figure skating fans not necessarily the general population which gives him a different view of the country.

If I read the article correctly he is the first generation Canadian of Chinese immigrants? In general, first generation of immigrants try to distance themselves from their parents' country or origin during their high school years and it is not until one matures that one begins to appreciate their heritage - in Patrick's case China. I think because of his extensive travels and interaction with other cultures, Patrick is much more aware of his background than perhaps other first generation adult children of immigrants.

Do I think that Patrick needs a muzzle or a pause button to think before he speaks, yeah probably. But then who of us doesn't need one at some time(s) in our lives?

Again, I fail to see why the overscoring or falls within programs are relevant to this conversation. Maybe I am blind or something.

I am not Chan's greatest fan and do think that there are some judging issues, but that does not relate to this discussion about being caught between two worlds/remarks in an interview

Yes being a big hockey star will get you more attention than being a figure skating star. But guess what Patrick knew that when he choose to become a figure skater not a hockey player too. Don't get me wrong I much prefer skating to hockey, but I don't think that necessarily means that figure skaters necessarily deserve more money. Seems to me that the money athletes get is based on the amount of revenue their sport brings in.

And given that hockey is in general a more popular sport worldwide than skating, I'd imagine that its also far more difficult to get to the top of that sport, given there's more people taking it and more competition for spots.

Kurt Browning in an article said it well Patrick could think about how he doesn't get the attention of a hockey player, or he could think about the fact that he actually does get more attention than a lot of athletes in other sports some who are more successful than what they do than Patrick. Ie Olympic gold medalists, multiple world champs.

And the thing is too while Patrick would get more help for training costs in China for sure, I"m not so sure he'd be a Yu-na Kim like star in China. I could be wrong but is skating really even that popular from China, I remember hearing that it wasn't. I know that Lu Chen was hardly getting all kinds of attention back in the day.

my little pony
12-10-2011, 06:46 AM
he could think about the fact that he actually does get more attention than a lot of athletes in other sports some who are more successful than what they do than Patrick. Ie Olympic gold medalists, multiple world champs.

.

maybe he could spend a week in the WNBA if it still exists

mtnskater
12-10-2011, 06:59 AM
I sincerely doubt if Patrick Chan had stayed in China he would be the caliber of skater he is today...most likely not a world champ. China just does not have the caliber of coaching he received from an early age in Canada.

agalisgv
12-10-2011, 10:04 AM
Patrick Chan gave an interview to the main Singapore Chinese-language newspaper not a long time ago stating that he wanted to represent Singapore in alpine skiing or tennis :rofl: The guy needs to make up his mind, or whatever he has instead :P He has relatives here in Singapore, and his mother reportedly "adores" this city. I thought you were joking at first, but I was wrong:
The Chinese language newspaper, 联合早报, blared out the news with headlines "世界滑冰冠军 陈伟群 愿代表新加坡参赛" -- translated to, "World figure skating champion Patrick Chan is willing to represent Singapore in competition".

On vacation in Singapore, Patrick Chan was interviewed by a reporter from 联合早报 during which he indicated that he might retire after the 2014 Olympics, and after that would be willing to [represent] Singapore in downhill skiing or tennis, or golf.http://chowskates.blogspot.com/2011/08/patrick-chan-willing-to-represent.html?m=1

Zokko!
12-10-2011, 11:31 AM
So what, oral diarrhoea just happens, even to a skating "genius", especially when the natural way out is usually crowded/stuffed with crawling figure skating judges ... :cold: :lynch:

millipied
12-10-2011, 02:04 PM
LMFAO, ironic isn't it! Out of all skaters, Chan is the one underappriciated?

ProgramerUSFS
12-10-2011, 04:53 PM
I sincerely doubt if Patrick Chan had stayed in China he would be the caliber of skater he is today...most likely not a world champ. China just does not have the caliber of coaching he received from an early age in Canada.

Patrick's original coach spend tons of time on edges and foot work, and the other coaches used to ask, when are you going to teach this young boy jumps. This is why he scores so high in transitions and his passes are so complex. Other men would fall down attempting to do what he does between the jumps. In my opinion, the judges are justified in his high scores and are sending a message to everyone else who thinks points come from big jumps. The coaching he received early on and attention to detail, is not taught to most skaters. It is why patrick dominates in PCS, can fall and still win. He also perfected off ice training in canada that most skaters do not have access to. He took all of this as a foundation and uses it in Colorado. I do not think in a million years that this would or could happen in China. In fact, I don't think it happens anymore. Patrick is a special one off product, that you will not see again for some time.

PDilemma
12-10-2011, 04:56 PM
Other men would fall down attempting to do what he does between the jumps.

Just like he does....:slinkaway

ProgramerUSFS
12-10-2011, 05:06 PM
Just like he does....:slinkaway

Hum, falling on edges means that you are getting yourself so far out of position that you fall sometimes. Last time I looked GOE was based on this. No issues when you skate up and down with no upper body movement. The famous russian skater, you know the one, "I should have won because I have quads" wound never fall down. Maybe you want them to all skate like this and not fall.

bek
12-10-2011, 06:34 PM
Hum, falling on edges means that you are getting yourself so far out of position that you fall sometimes. Last time I looked GOE was based on this. No issues when you skate up and down with no upper body movement. The famous russian skater, you know the one, "I should have won because I have quads" wound never fall down. Maybe you want them to all skate like this and not fall.

Well many including Chan have issues landing the jumps that famous Russian skater landed routinely and consistently.

At the end of the day the points should come when you execute the elements. IF you go out there and land a quad and others are landing triples/and or falling on quads than you should get a huge amounts of points for landing that quad.

But if you go out there and you fall on a quad than you shouldn't be getting huge amounts of points over those who are landing triples, and shouldn't be within three points of the person who landed a clean quad.

Same goes for footwork. You want to go out there and do vastly more difficult footwork than anyone else-go for it. But do the footwork cleanly/correctly. Then you should be rewarded for it. But there should be no huge reward for going out there with a jam packed program, where your falling all over the place, when its clearly a program at this time that you cannot execute well.

Obviously if skaters never go for the hard elements/ they will never get it down in competition, but there really has to be and should be a balance.

I was thrilled when Patrick took out his second triple axel in the long last year. It was obviously to much, and it certainly was a case of less is more. Same goes for transitions/choregraphy. I think its great that he does difficult choregraphy/transitions, but it shouldn't be so much choregraphy/transitions that he cannot execute some what well at least by the end of worlds. Two years ago at Worlds when he was falling multiple times in his program I was at the point where I'm thinking yes he's doing transitions but he's clearly doing to many because its clear he cannot execute this program well. I'd rather see a few less transitions. Please don't get me wrong I'm not saying empty skating/or not transitions. But I resent the idea of skaters getting rewarded for jam packed programs that they cannot execute at a reasonable level.

kwanette
12-10-2011, 07:15 PM
Hum, falling on edges means that you are getting yourself so far out of position that you fall sometimes. Last time I looked GOE was based on this. No issues when you skate up and down with no upper body movement. The famous russian skater, you know the one, "I should have won because I have quads" wound never fall down. Maybe you want them to all skate like this and not fall.

Now I feel bad about ever making jokes about Sasha Cohen. Sasha was "falling from brilliance" as Peter Carruthers would say..

:)

ProgramerUSFS
12-10-2011, 10:17 PM
Now I feel bad about ever making jokes about Sasha Cohen. Sasha was "falling from brilliance" as Peter Carruthers would say..

:)

:rofl:

ltnskater
12-11-2011, 02:09 AM
Well many including Chan have issues landing the jumps that famous Russian skater landed routinely and consistently.

At the end of the day the points should come when you execute the elements. IF you go out there and land a quad and others are landing triples/and or falling on quads than you should get a huge amounts of points for landing that quad.

But if you go out there and you fall on a quad than you shouldn't be getting huge amounts of points over those who are landing triples, and shouldn't be within three points of the person who landed a clean quad.

Same goes for footwork. You want to go out there and do vastly more difficult footwork than anyone else-go for it. But do the footwork cleanly/correctly. Then you should be rewarded for it. But there should be no huge reward for going out there with a jam packed program, where your falling all over the place, when its clearly a program at this time that you cannot execute well.

Obviously if skaters never go for the hard elements/ they will never get it down in competition, but there really has to be and should be a balance.

I was thrilled when Patrick took out his second triple axel in the long last year. It was obviously to much, and it certainly was a case of less is more. Same goes for transitions/choregraphy. I think its great that he does difficult choregraphy/transitions, but it shouldn't be so much choregraphy/transitions that he cannot execute some what well at least by the end of worlds. Two years ago at Worlds when he was falling multiple times in his program I was at the point where I'm thinking yes he's doing transitions but he's clearly doing to many because its clear he cannot execute this program well. I'd rather see a few less transitions. Please don't get me wrong I'm not saying empty skating/or not transitions. But I resent the idea of skaters getting rewarded for jam packed programs that they cannot execute at a reasonable level.

Very interesting point, and I would too like to see maybe a slightly scaled down difficulty of a program and him landing all his jumps. The problem with this, and many other skaters is that even with less difficult programs, perfect skates with all jumps landed are just simply so rare, so scaling down his difficulty has no guarantee on landed jumps. (As we see in many other skaters, very rare perfect programs, with a lot less difficulty)

Jiazumi
12-11-2011, 03:56 PM
See this is why I dont care for Patrick. He comes off as being history's best male skater and the world should bow down to him. His skating isnt all that great and why is comparing himself to legends? There are tons of kids in Canada that would love to skate for their country yet alone win big prizes. But not Chan. He wants people to kiss the ground he walks on. And people on here keep using the age factor. This guy is an adult stop using excuses.